In this episode, Vicki and Vashti discuss some of the reasons people have for not using cloth nappies. Some are valid, some are based on false information but they discuss them all openly and with the core concept that parents come first and their mental health is the most important thing. If you’re trepidatious about using cloth or even if you just need to combat the naysayers in your life this one is for you.
Next time someone gives you an excuse for not doing cloth, you can point them at this podcast and maybe help get them over the line!
If you’re interested in travelling with cloth and want to listen to the podcast the ladies mentioned you check it out here.
Vicki Simpson is the current President of the Australian Nappy Association and has been advocating for and selling cloth nappies in Australia for over a decade. She is the owner, creator and Chief Nappy Nerd here at Bubblebubs. Vashti Wadwell is the outgoing Member Secretary of the Australian Nappy Association and is the owner of Australia’s first bricks and mortar nappy store, Nest Nappies, in Brisbane, Australia. Both Vicki and Vashti have used cloth nappies for more than a decade each over three children and turned their passion into a business.
If you have any comments about the podcast, you can email us at email@example.com. If you found this podcast helpful, then the way to thank us is to leave feedback in the iTunes store.
Transcript: The top eight reasons people give up cloth nappies.
Andrew: How you doing, Vashti?
Vashti: I’m good thanks, Andrew. How are you today?
Andrew: I’m excellent, and how are you, Vicki?
Vicki: Grumpy, you made me do this again.
Andrew: Ah, grumpy. Yeah, we had an audio problem we had to do the whole podcast again, up until this point.
Vashti: Well the just the intro then, [Laughter].
Andrew: [Laughter] That’s right, but if I were really lazy I’d pull an intro from another podcast and see if anybody noticed it was the same intro.
Vicki: [Laughter] Jenna might [Laughter].
Vashti: Jenna would.
Andrew: Jenna might [Laughter]
Vicki: Hi Jenna [Laughter]
Vashti: Jenna messages me when she’s doing the socials for Vicki and says “so just explain that to me again?” Also, then she messages me a few minutes later and goes “Oh, my gosh it’s so weird having someone talk to me while I’m listening to a podcast” [Laughter].
Andrew: [Laughs] Ah, so, what’s today’s subject everybody?
Vashti: Isn’t reasons to not use cloth nappies, or…
Andrew: The top eight reasons people give up cloth nappies.
Vashti: There you go.
Andrew: And the reason I said top number reasons people give up cloth nappies is, depending on how many we get through, I’ll insert me saying a number later on [Laughs].
Vashti: There you go [Laughs].
Andrew: So, we’ve got to count them as we go.
Vashti: [Laughs] OK.
Andrew: So, number one, can I keep up with the washing?
Vicki: That’s a legitimate answer, you know, and I’m talking from like it didn’t bother me, and I’m no Martha Stewart. Although, we haven’t mentioned the scones, and you did not ask me, why do we have wine and scones today?
Andrew: Is it wine and scone day?
Vicki: No, it is in honour of Princess Eugene’s wedding, tonight.
Vashti: Oh, of course, another royal wedding, do you know what, I only just found out about that this afternoon on the way here. I had no idea.[Laughter]
Vicki: Fergie’s daughter.
Andrew: Fergie’s daughter, has she done anything in the Tech world, here’s why I don’t know.
Vicki: She takes after her mother and is quite the party princess, so hence, wine for Eugenie, and scones with it, anyway…
Vicki: … um, OK, so on them, so I’m no Martha Stewart, I have said that many, many, many times, and we managed to…
Andrew: A couple of times I’ve repeated it on a podcast just to…
Vicki: Yeah, I’m sure you have. Um, I didn’t really find the washing a struggle, but you know what, when you-you’re in the, we have all of these expectations when we’re first time parents in particular of, you know, what it’s going to be like, and do you know what, sometimes cloth nappies just push you over, and I’m actually here to say it’s OK if that is going to, like, don’t be afraid of it, how, I don’t know how to explain this, don’t be afraid of the washing, like that’s not, but if it just, if it’s just that one thing that is too much for you…
Andrew: Because your mental health is more important than what the nappy you’re using is.
Vicki: … exactly, that’s what I’m trying to get to, is, um, or you know what, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. If you are struggling with the washing, cut it back, or, you know, have a couple of days off, I mean it’s lovely and rainy today, and you know what, if you just can’t your nappies dry and stuff, take the pressure off.
Vashti Yep, you’ve got to do what works for you. I didn’t find it an issue myself, though it was just…
Vicki: It becomes part of your routine.
Vashti: … yeah, when I had two under two in full-time cloth, I just put the nappies on before I went to bed at night, and when I woke up in the morning, I hung them on the clothes airer while my big boy was having his breakfast, and my little girl was having a night of sleep. Um, with the third, with Kylan, Brent was away for the first five months of Kylan’s life, or six months of Kylan’s life…
Andrew: Did he see the birth?
Vashti: … yeah, he was home for the first six weeks, but then he was back to Sydney, and that was, so Kylan was born at the end of July. So he was back in Sydney mid-September, or you know, early September, and he didn’t come back until January, I think we saw him twice for two days each in that period, because…
Vicki: Did you cope better with him gone? [Laughs]
Vashti: … you get into a routine, really do.
Vicki: You do, and then they stuff it up.
Andrew: Shh, he listens to this.
Vicki: They do, they stuff it up. Like I know, ‘cause we have many an argument over this, you know, when you’ve got your partner, like well for us now it’s the school run, and you’ve got your partner there, and you know you’re doing lunches and stuff like that, it’s like, well why aren’t you, you know, trying to get the six year old ready for school, who should be old enough to get himself ready…
Vashti: Yeah no [Laughs].
Vicki: … however, we won’t even go there, but because you’ve got your partner there, there’s this expectation that they’ll just pick up where you’ll leave it, but when they’re not there, you know that you’ve got to do that anyway, so you kind of juggle a lot more balls, but you keep them up in the air a lot more.
Andrew: You pretty much get out of the bed and help(?).
Andrew: … Because you know, without help it’s going to take longer.
Vashti: Oh, I don’t know…
Vicki: You’ll manage it, the kids know I think.
Vashti: … yeah, and I think that like Brent’s just changed jobs, and he’s in a new phase of training at the moment, and he’s not leaving home until seven thirty, quarter past seven, half past seven. For so many years, I’ve been so used to him going home at a quarter past, half past six, and I get out of bed after he leaves and we get everything done, and when he’s back it’s like, [Laughs] you’re in my way, what are you doing? Get out of my way, you’re like, why aren’t you making lunches, why aren’t you doing this? So, but yeah, you just…
Vicki: We should ask Hayley, because Hayley listens to the podcast, and her partner’s, he’s Army as well isn’t he?
Vicki: Yep, so, and she’s pregnant, and is looking after the two boys, and we should get her to comment, and see whether, better with him there, or away?
Andrew: So, Hayley send an email to firstname.lastname@example.org
Vashti: Hayley was in today, and she was having a mental health break, so, because she actually rang her partner and said, you need to come home, the kids are driving me nuts, the boys are gone wild, and I need bolts so he actually came back and she came into the shop and served my customers for me because we were swamped. So, this is what my customers do, they go in, and they spend the day, and they serve customers for me when I can’t get to them.
Andrew: I’ve had that same thing from Vicki. I’ve had a phone call with her, and everything’s fine, no problems. Ten minutes later, come home now!
Vashti: Yep [Laughs]
Vicki: If you want to see your children alive, come home now, now…
Vashti: [Laughs] Yeah, no definitely, that’s where Hayley was at today, she needed a mental health break, and her mental health break was spending some time in at Nest Nappies, so I think that’s lovely.
Andrew: She must love it when there’s a baby show in Brisbane? [Laughs]
Vashti: Oh, yeah, she thinks it’s great, so.
Andrew: So, Day Care will not use them?
Vicki: Oh, no, continuity of care. They are the three words that you need to talk to your Day Care about; they’re not allowed to, they are legally not allowed to refuse.
Vashti: Yep, I mean look you can, there are some Day Cares who will make it difficult for you…
Vicki: You can be ‘that’ mother…
Vashti: Yep, um.
Vicki: … however, you know, you also need to advocate for your kid, and you know we use those words continuity of care, like, you know, kind of, these are fighting words, but realistically, you know it’s essential…
Vashti: Yeah, your Day Care should be following through on your parenting techniques as well, so that your child is getting, the growth and the learning experience that you want for them. I know with Mikayla, I think I’ve mentioned before, she’s allergic to, well she was allergic to disposables, so when we were looking for Day Cares for her, the first question I asked any Day Care Centre I contacted is “will you use cloth nappies?” Moreover, if they said no, I just said, well that’s lost a customer, so.
Vicki: Um yeah no, so I think that‘s an excellent point, they’re doing you a service, you’re paying them…
Vicki: … you don’t have to follow their rules…
Vashti: No, so…
Vicki: … well, you know what I mean.
Vashti: … and there’s look, there’s a lot more Day Cares that I see on a daily basis, there are a lot more Day Cares here in Brisbane that I know of, and I’m pretty sure, across the rest of Australia, that is more than open. There are several Day Care Centres, I know Baby Beehinds fitted out a Montessori Day Care in Canberra last year and supplied all the cloth nappies for it, there’s plenty. Lavenderia provides several Day Care Centres in Sydney and Melbourne with their cloth nappies, and they do the laundry for it as well. So, there are Day Care Centres that have cloth as standard in the centre, and they supply them, and there are other Day Care Centres that will use your cloth nappies, as long as you’re providing wet bags. Some will ask for a wet bag for every nappy, and then a larger wet bag, so they want to wrap individually, the reason for that is actually cross-contamination, so if there’s a poopy nappy in the wet bag, if the Day Care operators opened the wet bag and put their hand in they may get poo on their hand, so they want to be able to individually wrap each nappy, so that there’s no chance of them accidentally touching a dirty one, the next time they put the next dirty one in.
Vicki: Have you ever touched a poopy nappy in a wet bag Vashti?
Vashti: No, I haven’t [Laughs], but we’re talking…
Vicki: I must admit I never have either.
Vashti: … well, we are sometimes talking about young carers, like some of these carers in some of the Day Care Centres are in their late teens, early twenties…
Vicki: You were saying I’m very judgemental here?
Vicki: So, it’s a pet hate, it really is a pet hate, when a Day Care Centre says no, and especially to a vulnerable mum, a first-time mum who is, you know, a) not wanting to go back to work, and trying to find the best Day Care Centre, or the best Child Care provider for their child, you know, like.
Vashti: This is the most precious thing in your life, your baby, it’s like…
Vicki: So, it annoys me, because I’m such an advocate for mum’s, like you know for the, you know, I know what it’s like.
Vashti: Yeah, yeah, I think the biggest thing with Day Care is, and you know Family Day Care, Nanny or actual, like Child Care Centre, it doesn’t matter what route you decide to go down, even if you’re using friends and family, like grandma and grandpa as your carers. Talking to your carer, or your prospective carer, and showing them the product and teaching them how to go through it, and stuff like that, and being open and having that two-way conversation stream. If your Day Care Centre is hesitant to use cloth, find out what their reasons are for not wanting to use it and talk to them about how to get past those reasons. Sometimes a Day Care Centre doesn’t understand how easy cloth is today. So, they may, when you say, yep I want to use cloth nappies, they’ll go, no, because they’re thinking the old school terry towelling flats, and they don’t want to fold it, and they don’t want to use pins, and plastic covers and stuff. If you can take in a modern cloth nappy, like an all in one, or an all in two, or something like that, they’ll look at that, all in one’s are fantastic for Day Care because it’s just one piece. The Day Care providers don’t have to think about anything; they can just put it on exactly like a disposable.
Andrew: Just for the record, I’ve touched a poopy nappy, but it touched(?)
Vicki: But have you touched your poop though, you know, like how many times does your fingernail go through that toilet paper, and you go…
Vashti: [Laughs] I haven’t had that.
Andrew: That’s why they make fingernails [Laughter] must be why I don’t have fingernails…
Vicki: I have acrylic’s, carefully is the answer to the question [Laughter].
Andrew: No one I know uses them, how will I know how to use them?
Vashti: Oh, there’s plenty of ways, you know, like if you are the first mum in your group, no one you know uses disposables, because you don’t have any other parents in your circle who are using disposables, yet you can use a disposable no dramas, so…
Vicki: If you’re listening to this podcast, you’re already on the right track…
Vashti: Yeah, exactly.
Vicki: … because there’s plenty of information in previous episodes, you know, different places that we’ve pointed.
Vashti: Yeah, it’s, you know it’s not hard. Honestly, it’s so super easy, start with one…
Vicki: It’s just a nappy.
Vashti: … start with one, see how you go.
Andrew: Um, I can not get them to fit.
Vicki: Mmm, OK, that can be, not every nappy is going to fit a baby, and that’s a bit of a trap that people fall into, and we particularly find that when you’re buying online, there’s no real way to tell the difference between, what we refer to as, a China cheapy, versus one of the more premium brands and things like that. What I would suggest is try a different style. So whenever you’re talking about buying your first stash of nappies, it’s always a good idea to try a few different types, because you may find that if you get a bub with chunky legs, a side snapping might be better, if you’ve got a bub that’s pretty straight up and down, a front Velcro nappy might be better, pretty much you can guarantee any two part system will fit every baby, so that won’t ever be a problem because you’ve got your nappy and your cover.
Vashti: So, your flats, your fitness and your pre-folds, that’s what we mean with two-part, not an all in two [Laughs]
Vicki: Yes, yep, they’re two separate.
Andrew: OK, it’s too hard to travel with them.
Vashti: Well I think we’ve already covered this in a couple of episodes as Jenna talked once about travelling overseas with her cloth.
Andrew: That was a year ago [Laughs]
Vashti: OK, well when Kynan was four months old, I travelled to Darwin, we spent ten days in an apartment in Darwin, and I took all my cloth nappies with me, and we didn’t use disposable. I have, lot’s of my customers, go camping with cloth, or, I mean, I moved from Victoria to Brisbane, and was on the road for, well, you know, staying at mother in law, and mothers house, so from the time we left our home in Victoria, to the time we moved into our house in Brisbane, we used disposables the whole way through. We had washing facilities. I think travelling with cloth you need to sort of have a look at what your washing facilities are going to be, whether or not you have access to washing machines or clothes dryers, whether you’re staying in the one spot for a few days.
Andrew: So, what did you do? Wash that night, and then hang em out the window to dry when you drive to the next town?
Vashti: Um, well we did… [Laughter]
Andrew: [Sound effects]
Vicki: Can imagine like doing the duck, with the swimming, in the car…
Vashti: Yeah, yeah.
Vicki: … instead, you’ve got your nappies hanging out the car going [Flapping sound effects]
Vashti: Well we drove, we put the kids in the car after dinner and drove through the night from Victoria through to Newcastle, and we had a couple of, like I tried to get as many of the nappies washed and cleaned before we left Victoria, but we’d been staying in a hotel, while our house was being packed up a couple of weeks as well. So we did have a few, and then, so when we got to my mother in laws place, she is very particular about her washing machine. She had an old twin tub, and she never liked anyone else touching the washing machine, but I said to her “No you’re not washing my nappies, just show me how to use the washing machine, and I’ll wash them.” So, we washed them there and hung them on the line to dry, we were at my mother in laws place for about a week, so, you know, I just did the nappies every couple of days, and then when we got to mum’s, it was just the same. We washed when we got to mum’s and used her washer in mum’s house for about [Inaudible 15.29] using cloth at that time.
Vicki: Hmm, good.
Andrew: My gosh it takes a long time to move.
Vashti: Oh, well this particular move, it did, because we had many problems finding a house here in Brisbane. So we made a very short notice move from Victoria, and it was to get out of Victoria before Christmas, and other things are going on, [Laughs] so.
Andrew: We moved a warehouse in six hours.
Vashti: Yeah, it usually doesn’t take me that long, so.
Andrew: Sorry, I moved a warehouse in six hours, Vicki didn’t do anything.
Vicki: [Laughs] I pay people to move the warehouse in six hours, I’m not stupid…
Vashti: But in Darwin, when I travelled to Darwin, I just rented a self-contained unit, that had washing facilities there and it had a clothes airer, and so, I just hung the nappies on the clothes airer, and put them next to the door if we had the door open, or if the apartment was locked up, they were just sitting underneath the aircon or the fan.
Vicki: I think Jenna had some wise words a little while ago, she said, don’t, like actually doing disposables when you’ve never done disposables before, is an idiotic move. Don’t, like go with what you know, don’t just, oh well I’d better use disposables on a plane or something like that, because you know your cloth, you know how to manage it, so don’t kind of change the system right before you’re about to be on a plane for 18 to 20 hours. That’s probably the worse thing you can do, that’s worse than, you know, using cloth.
Vashti: Yeah, yeah definitely, yep, because if you have something happen, or if you don’t know what the capacity of the nappy is, or anything like that, then you’re just going to end up with leaks and explosions, changes of clothes.
Vicki: Yeah, things you can’t plan for, whereas with cloth, you know, you kind of have a much better idea of how to manage if something goes wrong. It’s more than if it goes wrong, you know, you do get a leak or something.
Vashti: Yep, and wet bags, wet bags, wet bags, wet bags they’re fantastic when you’re travelling, even…
Andrew: We’ve got a whole episode on wet bags.
Vashti: … yeah, so if even if you…
Vicki: We’re doing a whole newsletter on wet bags, so you know [Laughs]
Vashti: … yeah, same, same.
Andrew: So, the next question is, you have to change the cloth nappies too often.
Vashti: I think it depends.
Vicki: You should be changing your nappy every two to three hours, or once they hit toddlerhood, pretty much once they wee…
Vicki: … um, you know, just for, I’ve said this before, just because a disposable nappy can hold a day’s worth of wee, it should, you know, wee or urine might be sterile until it leaves the body and touches air, and then bacteria can grow, and you don’t want your baby sitting in a bacteria filled nappy, for five or six hours.
Vashti: There’s nappies that can do both…
Vashti: … there have been times when, yeah…
Vicki: … and then we’ll say, but night nappies, but you know.
Vashti: … yeah, there’s but’s for everything, I know there’s been times with, I mean with Kylan there was…
Vicki: A bit of an earworm, it’s got big butts and I cannot…
Andrew: Everybody’s got but’s.
Vashti: … however, there was, there was, I still remember one day with Kylan I was busy, it was a day where I had lots of, and I was doing lots of things, and I put a nappy on him, and we were in and out of, wandering around shopping and appointments, and every time I got to somewhere where I could change him, he was asleep. Also, then when he woke up he had a feed in the carrier, but there was never anywhere to change him around, and then when I got somewhere that I could change him, he was asleep again. I worked out at the end of the day he’d been in that nappy for about five and a half, six hours, and it was chockers, but there were no leaks [Laughs].
Vicki: OK, so, you know how I said that I’m a huge advocate for mental health and stuff like that and that first-time mums have unrealistic expectations, that was a third child story wasn’t it?
Vashti: It was a third child story.
Andrew: Oh chockers, we’ve got to put that on the scale [All Laugh] just wee’d, chockers.
Vashti: Yeah, that was the third baby…
Vashti: … so I know with my first two, yeah, I was, yeah, especially with Braith, and when I was using flats with him, it was, we were changing every two and a half hours or so, or at least every feed.
Vicki: Well do you know what gave it away? It was not the four or five hours. It was the sleep…
Vicki: … the baby is asleep. I’m not waking this child.
Vashti: [Laughs] So, yeah, but, no, look.
Vicki: And you know what, talking of that, have you ever been, of course, you’ve been in that situation, where the baby has pooed, and they’re asleep, and it’s this conundrum. It’s like, do I wake them, aah, I can’t let them stay in this nappy, but the baby is asleep. Everybody has battled with that, I can tell you now, you will, it may take 15-20 minutes, but you will change the baby.
Andrew: Hey, well my thinking of, with that is, yes, OK, they’ve pooped, they’re asleep, but when they wake up, and it will be soon, it will be terrible.
Vicki: And it’s going to burn, yeah, and the damage that it has done, that, that poo will do in that sleep cycle, you’ll just, you’ll 100% regret not waking that child to change their nappy.
Vashti: You do get good after you’ve done it a few times though, you do get good at not waking them, but you work out how to change the poopy nappy and clean the bum, and they manage to stay asleep…
Vashti: … so, a good one is if you’ve got both parents there, you know, lie down, one of your feeds…
Vicki: Mum I suspect [Laughs].
Vashti: … and the other parent…
Andrew: Ah, it could be a two female.
Vashti: … yeah, that’s what I’m saying, the other parent, change the bum, so yeah actually no mum doesn’t have to feed, if it’s two dads, one could be feeding, and to try and keep them kind of peaceful.
Vicki: Well right, yeah, we just made a huge assumption there that it was a breastfed baby.
Vashti: Yeah exactly, so if you have a bottle.
Vicki: But I can guarantee you 100% that if you don’t change that nappy, you will regret it.
Vashti: Yeah, you’ll end up with rashes and burns and stuff.
Vicki: But you will, you will not be the first to contemplate it.
Andrew: It’ll cost you so much more time.
Vashti: It’ll cost you, yeah [Laughs]
Vicki: It will, it will.
Andrew: Do it now, do it now.
Andrew: Ah, next one is, they are bulky on my child and restrict movement.
Vicki: That’s an old wives’ tale.
Vashti: It is, Looks, no, they are bulky.
[Lots of over speaking]
Andrew: No, no, no, wait.
Vicki: OK, sorry, no that’s hitting the milestones isn’t it?
Andrew: No, no, I get things off the internet…
Andrew: … this must be true.
Vicki: The internet would never lie to you, Andrew [Laughs]
Andrew: That’s right, nobody’s wrong on the internet.
Vashti: No, they are bulky, depending on what you use, I mean if you use a size nappy, or a newborn nappy or something like that, it’s going to be a lot trimmer than a one size nappy on a young, but cloth nappies are bulkier than disposables, there’s.
Vicki: It won’t, sorry I was going a step forward, it’s not going to change their milestones, they’re still going to hit all their milestones, it’s not going to stop them rolling, or crawling or walking…
Vashti: Or walking.
Vicki: … and its only first-time parents, who worry about baby not rolling fast enough.
Andrew: Pooping, it’s not going to stop them pooping.
Vashti: No, it won’t, but it’ll catch it. Moreover, look, the biggest thing as well is, every baby develops differently. So, and I had it with my kids as well, as they will meet their milestones at different stages. So, your friend’s baby might be rolling over, at three months, and yours is six months, and still not moving, that’s fine, it doesn’t matter, your baby will still roll at some stage.
Vicki: Funny you should say that, because I remember Abbi, she, at the time, I had a friend whose daughter was three weeks younger, and she was walking at nine months…
Vicki: … do you know how old Abbi was when she rolled over? Eight months…
Vashti: There you go.
Vicki: … and yet this other child, she was a, and she was talking in full sentences and all of that sort of stuff. So, you know, I get where you’re coming from with the whole, oh, but they’re not hitting, they’re not sitting up at what, six months, is it six months, I don’t even know anymore.
Vashti: Six months is the standard for sitting, like average, it’s an ordinary sort of stat, it’s an average.
Vicki: And don’t forget it takes the early and the late ones to make the average…
Vashti: Yeah, exactly.
Vicki: … it’s the same with a baby on the 50th percentile, it takes the big ones and the small ones to make that fiftieth.
Vashti: Yep, well I know like Braith, by the time he was one, he was talking in full sentences, like, five-or six-word convictions, three and four sentences at a time, like I was having full conversations with him by the time he was one. Kylan on the other hand, by the time he was one, he’d said probably three words…
Vashti: … so, yeah.
Vicki: Edward didn’t talk until he was three.
Andrew: And then he won’t shut up.
Vicki: That’s true he loves talking now.
Andrew: You can’t hear it at home, but Gabriel is interrupted us a couple of times during this podcast, which I’ll have to take those sections out.
Vicki: But yeah, every child is different, they all meet their milestones at different ages. So it’s not the cloth nappy that’s stopping them from rolling or sitting or anything like that, it’s just that…
Vashti: It’s their personality.
Vicki: … your baby is, you know, meets those milestones at a later stage, so don’t compare your baby in a cloth nappy not sitting at six months, to your friend’s baby in a disposable nappy who are sitting at four months…
Andrew: That’s right because they…
Vicki: … correlation doesn’t equal causation ever.
Andrew: … Because they could grow up to be the Prime Minister.
Andrew: I can’t get my other half to use them.
Vicki: Well, find another half.
Vicki: Do you know what, and look I’m making the assumption here that, you know, the woman is the primary caregiver and all of that, so I will preface that by, you know, ‘cause my comment will be that, do you know what, I just pushed a baby out of my vajayjay or had one cut out, what I say goes, I’m the primary caregiver, you know, just don’t buy the disposables, you know they’re not on the list.
Vashti: I think it’s also about talking in a relationship, and being on the same wavelength…
Vicki: You mean not being the boss.
Vashti: [Laughs] … however, being…
Vicki: I don’t know how Andrew would take that if I consulted him on stuff [Laughs]
Vashti: …but yeah like I mean you need to co-parent, right, like in most families there are two parents.
Andrew: It’s a joint decision until the wife has to step in, and make a decision. [Laughs]
Vicki: Yeah well [Laughs]
Vashti: Happy wife, happy life, is that how it is?
Vicki: Be very safe sir, sit.
Vashti: It might be two males, so [Laughs]
Andrew: Oh, that’s true, that’s true.
Vicki: But I did preface that, I did preface that I’m speaking…
Vashti: See you’re talking from your own experience, yes.
Vicki: Of course, of course.
Vashti: But, ah, look, you co-parent…
Vicki: You do.
Vashti: … so you need to both take each other’s opinions into account. I know with Braith.
Vicki: And discuss why’s…
Vicki: … why do you want, why, you know, explain to your partner why it is so important to you, because it took a while for Andrew to get it, you know, he was, he did precisely the same thing with Abbi and started using disposables and stuff like that, and then I just stopped buying disposables, you know because this was just what I wanted to do.
Andrew: I understand Jenna’s comment too about go with what you know…
Andrew: … because I must admit when I did try the disposables, they didn’t seem to work for me [Laughter], and I couldn’t work out why. The cloth ones are better, but it’s just because I’d never used them.
Vicki: However, in fairness, the nappies that I had made for Abbi, this was like 15 years ago, or no, she’s 14, 14 years ago, they were made just with the fleece outer, there was no P.U.L. in them, right, so what I know now apparently, and I’d made them out of, the absorbency wasn’t enough, and it was out of some towels and stuff like that, so as soon as she was laying on her back or what have you, we were getting all sorts of compression leaks and things like that, and you know, apparently the product developed from that, but from his perspective, we had this brand new baby, that we were changing sheets and clothes and all of that, and how we actually… do you know what it’s because I’m so tenacious [Laughs] and you know, I decided I was doing cloth, and it was the Scorpio in me, that dug my heels in, and said, no, we are doing this, and you know, I just persisted until we got them right. But in defence of Andrew, I can understand why he was getting jack of it because I’d also had a Caesar with her so I wasn’t very mobile, and so he was doing all the washing [Laughs].
Vashti: [Laughs] He still does all the washing [Laughs].
Vicki: Yes, he does.
Andrew: Yeah, no, Honey I’ll make the washing not heavier than the baby for you.
Vashti: But, you know, talk…
Vashti: … talk and take each other’s opinions into account, with Braith…
Vicki: And then go with yours. [Laughs]
Vashti: [Laughs] … well, Brent refused to use cloth with Braith…
Vicki: … yeah, that’s right, you said that.
Vashti: … however, that was because we needed the terry flats, and he didn’t want to do that, he found them too difficult, he could never get a good fit on them, and stuff like that, even though I pre-folded them. Whereas with Kylan, he was just like, yeah, well we’re doing cloth, like, there was no question about it.
Vicki: Funny you say that because we see that a lot more at expo too…
Vicki: … when, you know the dad is – again, making assumptions here – you know, the dad will come up, and we’re doing cloth, and quite often we’ve got to convince mum, you know, to kind of look at it. Which is such a difference from five years ago, there are so many more involved dads…
Vashti: Yep, yeah.
Vicki: … which is good, it’s not a bad thing at all.
Vashti: No, well I had two mums in the shop today, so they’d just go through their I.V.F’s, well they’ve just gone through their I.V.F, and it’s succeeded and everything, so the pregnant mum, she was like “I kinda want to do this, but I think I’m going to need some convincing, because I’m not 100% sure” and the other mum was like “Well I really want to do cloth” So it was the pregnant mum that needed the convincing, and the non-pregnant mum was like, no this is what I want to do, I want to do this for our child, so she was, like, the secondary parent, I suppose you could say.
Vicki: Hmm, well the not primary carer.
Vashti: Yeah, so, but, by the time they’d finished, like, both mums were all over it, they were, yep this is what we’re going to do, and they walked out with nappies, and…
Vicki: There are so many.
Vashti: … and they walked out with pre-folds.
Vicki: Yeah, do you know, there are so many, and how many times do we see it on the forums, second-time mums, I didn’t think it would be so easy, I wish I had of started at birth with my child…
Vashti: Yeah, yep.
Vicki: … because there is just such a, I don’t know, it’s, it’s, I suppose you don’t see what you don’t know.
Vashti: But I would say, start how you plan to move forward…
Vashti: … so if you plan to use cloth nappies…
Vicki: Don’t start at six weeks.
Vashti: … don’t, no, start at birth, like take your nappies to the hospital, or you know, do it as soon as you get home from the hospital.
Vicki: And have realistic expectations too. If you’ve chosen to go down the one size path with the newborn, have expectations that you may struggle to get a good fit, that you may get the odd leak…
Vashti: They’re bulky.
Vicki: … and they’re bulky. If you have those expectations, you will succeed, because you won’t go “oh, well these don’t fit the baby, because you know, their bums in the air, and all of this sort of stuff” you’ll be like, oh, OK, I knew this was going to happen, but I also know that my babies going to grow super-fast, and in three or four weeks, we’re going to get a perfect fit, and we’ll just make do until we get to that, if you’ve chosen to go down, to go with newborn nappies…
Vashti: Be aware they may grow out of them, by 10 to 12 weeks.
Vicki: … earlier, earlier than you expected. Yeah like especially if you pop out a four and a half, five-kilo baby, yeah that’s very different to a two and a half, three-kilo baby.
Andrew: Only by a kilo.
Vashti: No, two kilos [Laughs]
Vicki: [Laughs] Yeah, two kilos, [Laughs] you need to come to a few more newborn shoots Honey, [Laughter] there is a massive difference when you put them side by side.
Andrew: Nah, I avoid the newborn shoots, because it’s always too hot in there.
Vicki: Yeah, we do, we have lots of heating.
Vashti: Well you have to.
Vicki: Well, actually funny, the last newborn shoot, did I tell you? I was changing the nappies, and every, you could say the second, because I’m a cold fish, hence why I live in Brisbane, and this was like, what four weeks ago, or something like that, so, you know September is still a bit cold. However, anyway my hands were cold, every single time I would change a nappy, I’d have to change the baby, and it would scream at the top of its lungs, and then I’d have to give it to mum to feed, while we were photographing another newborn. Moreover, then we’d settle that baby and get it ready to photograph, [Laughter] and I’d got back to the other young, and then it would scream at the top of its lungs…
Andrew: Oh, I scream at the top of my lungs when you touch me with your cold hands.
Vicki: True, [Laughter] this is G rated Andrew.
Andrew: That’s G rated.
Andrew: Okey dokey guys, I think that’s enough.
Andrew: Thank you Vashti.
Vashti: Thanks, Andrew.
Andrew: Thanks, Vicki.
Vicki: Thanks then.