Expecting a baby soon and trying to work out where to start with cloth nappies? This week Jenna joins Vicki and Vashti to discuss what it’s like to use cloth nappies on a newborn. Jenna is freshly armed with 13 weeks of hands-on newborn cloth nappy knowledge, courtesy of her gorgeous baby son! With experience of using modern cloth nappies in hospital; what it’s like to wash newborn nappies (and the myth of meconium!); types of nappies that work well for newborns; and advice for any issues you may encounter, Jenna will guide you with her knowledge and insights to find the perfect newborn nappy for your new family member.
Transcription: First 13 weeks of hands-on newborn cloth nappy knowledge
Andrew: How are you doing, Vashti? Vashti: Good thanks Andrew, how are you? Andrew: Excellent. How are you doing, Vicki? Vicki: Yeah, I’m good. Andrew: You’re good? You look like you just woke up. Vicki: Yeah, I’m feeling a bit tired. I had a bit of a brainstorm session at like… Andrew: Four am? Vicki: So yeah, a little bit sleepy. Andrew: It’s funny, I get up in the middle of the night and I wander out to the bathroom, to the kitchen to get a drink, and Vicki goes Hi. Jenna: That would have scared the daylights out of me. Vicki: Many times it’s not… Jenna: Am I allowed to talk yet? Vicki: No. Andrew: No, you haven’t been introduced. Vicki: It’s not a one off though, it happens all the time. It’s my Einstein hour is usually between 3:00 and 4:00. Jenna: I want to be surprised, but I’m not, but I know that that’s when I get the messages. Andrew: Well it scares the crap out of me because I think is it the middle of the day? Did I fall asleep in the bedroom? Have I had lunch yet? All these things go through my head. Jenna: It just messes with reality. Andrew: Hey Jenna, how are you doing? Jenna: Oh, I exist now? I’m here? Andrew: Yes, you can talk. So why did we get you in, Jenna? You’re not even back at work yet. Jenna: Because I have a baby and I won’t remember it by the time I get back to work. Andrew: [laughs] Vashti: You’re not on maternity leave anymore? Jenna: I’m doing a really good job of maternity leave. Vicki: This is exactly why I have my brainstorm sessions at 3 am because otherwise I’ll wake up and I won’t remember it. Jenna: I’m here to talk about using cloth nappies on newborns. I can’t look at either of you for some reason. It’s very disconcerting. Stare at Andrew. I’m here to talk about, we talk a lot about using cloth nappies on newborns and how to do it and all the facts and figures that we talk about, and we prep people on, and the expo spiel that we can all do in our sleep. But I wanted to talk about my experience using cloth on my baby, and what that actually looks like. So we started with cloth in hospital, right from birth. My goal is… Vashti: Straight in. Vicki: Do you want to be asked a question. Jenna: No, I tried a question and nobody asked me anyway. Andrew: I love it when Jenna comes on the podcast because I don’t have to do any work. Jenna: I’ve got a baby to get home to. Andrew: Because I always get… Vicki: Do you mind if I just close my eyes? Jenna: While we wait for her… Andrew: Earbashed by you girls. I always get earbashed by you girls, don’t you know that? Don’t you know that, Andrew, don’t you know that? And I keep telling you, I’m the Marty McFly of this podcast. I don’t know anything and I don’t learn anything during any of the three movies I was in. Just so, keep the people up to date. Sorry Jenna. Jenna: Do you want to ask me a question? I have talking points here. Andrew: Let’s… we’ve already spoken about how you got pregnant, so I guess we can jump straight to… and if you want to know about that, we’ll link that in the podcast. We’ll link that in the show notes. So let’s jump straight to the birth. Was it a surprise? Jenna: No, I was induced, so it was nice and organised, which was very much like me. I knew what was happening, I could organise… Andrew: Don’t you just love… Jenna: I didn’t have, in the middle of Covid and everything it was nice not to have to worry about who was going to get there to look after… Vicki: Jenna is very much like that chick from Who’s Talking. Jenna: I’ve not seen it. Vicki: What? You’ve not seen that movie where she scheduled her C-section and all of that sort of stuff? Jenna: See, I like induction because I wanted to have a vaginal birth so I didn’t have to deal with the… Vicki: Mummy-tummy afterwards. That I’m dealing with eight years later. No, 15. Jenna: I was going to say recovery of a Caesar. But induction meant that I could still schedule it, but that worked very… but yes, the birth was very, very smooth, everything went well. Andrew: Didn’t the doctor say after the birth, I love it when it goes by the numbers? Jenna: No, but my friend Jess did pick the time he’d be born, down to the minute. That was impressive. She was, if you could have him at 1:32, because that’s when Edison was born, that would be great. And sure enough, he came out, and I looked at the clock, oh my God, it’s actually a bit earlier. Jess was right, to the minute. Very impressive. Vicki: Wow. Andrew: Did she win the pool? Was there a pool? Jenna: No, but she would have. Should have bet some money. But everything went smooth and I’ve been saying to Casey, I’ll try and use some brand names and some un-brand names. Un-brand names? Some generic names here, but I’d say to Casey repeatedly, the plan was out of me and into a Bam-Bam. Andrew: No, you can’t say Bam-Bam. Jenna: That was what I just said, I’m going to use some brands. Andrew: It’s a fitted. Vicki: She’s a Bubblebubs employee. Guess what brand she has mostly sitting at her house. Jenna: I’m also going to mention some other brands, just to keep things fair and honest, because I bought most of my cloth nappies before I worked at Bubblebubs, so I do actually use other brands. But mostly Bubblebubs. So that brings us to the first point I want to talk about is if you’re planning to use cloth in hospital it can be a little confusing, because the hospital I birthed at actually says specifically in their literature, please don’t bring cloth nappies. Vicki: Mater? Jenna: Yep. Andrew: I thought we weren’t going to mention brands. Vicki: She’s OK. Vashti: The RBH is refusing cloth now as well. Andrew: Really? Jenna: Really but I spoke to, and I was very nervous about that, because as Vicki knows, I don’t like confrontation and I didn’t want that to be a tense moment. I don’t do well. I can be a bit of a doormat like that, and so I was worried that there might be confrontation after the birth and I don’t want that to be a thing. I spoke to my obstetrician, he was like I don’t care, that sounds great, really good, and asked me about what brands I use and how cloth nappies work. So that was all fine, there was no issues with it, I don’t really know why it’s in the literature… Vicki: I do… Jenna: Because people try to rinse nappies in sinks. Vicki: No, they have their own disposable brand. I’d say it’s something that’s just in their literature, and probably like that for most hospitals. Jenna: Yeah, so don’t take the literature to heart. Talk to someone, and discuss it with your midwife, your obstetrician, whoever, to get a real view on how it actually works in the hospital. Don’t just believe the paper that you get given. And one thing I didn’t do, but Keren did, that I was talking to her about, is she put it in her birth plan. It was actually written down. She actually did want to put it on herself. I don’t know what drug she was doing that she thought she’d be the first one to get up and put the nappy on the baby. But… Vicki: They clearly didn’t give you those drugs. Vashti: I put Kylan’s first nappy on him. That was after a Caesar. Vicki: How? Jenna: How? I’m glad that wasn’t just me. Andrew: Even I’m flabbergasted by it. Jenna: Andrew looks the most interested I’ve seen him in one of these podcasts. Vashti: Well he stayed on my chest, so in the theatre he was on my chest. Then they did take him off my chest and put him in a humidity crib to take him into recovery while they finished cleaning me up. And then I went into recovery and they put him back on my chest and left him on my chest until we got to the ward. Jenna: So all of that was nappy free though? Vashti: Yep, that was all nappy free. So I ended up with lots of meconium over my chest. Jenna: OK, all the same, I think I’d rather my partner put the nappy on and not have meconium on my chest. Just my personal preference. Vashti: Well it was for me, it was more about the skin to skin, straight up. As much skin to skin as we possibly could. But then once we got to the ward I was able to sit up enough to have him on the bed in between my legs, and I got to put his first nappy on. Jenna: Oh, that’s really cool. OK, I will… Vashti: Which was a Bam Bam, again. Jenna: I was laughing at Keren last night. I don’t know anyone, and now I’m curious, maybe we can get some comments when we post this, but I’m curious to know if any other mums have actually been the first person to put the nappy on their kid, because I didn’t change… Vicki: A cloth nappy, yes, but the first nappy. Jenna: The first nappy on their kid. The first nappy. Ryan was four days old before I changed a nappy. I did better with Liam. Which brings me to my next point. I’m to guess that Vashti isn’t the normal story there. Vashti: Probably not, I’m not normal in any way. Jenna: Because what is good to know as a first time mum is you probably won’t be the first person to put the kid’s first nappy on. So if you are planning on doing cloth from birth and that matters to you, make sure your birth partner is informed. Run some drills at home, make them put a nappy on a doll, so that they’re doing it the first time in a high pressure environment. Andrew: No, they just feel stupid when you get them to do that. Jenna: I don’t care. Vicki: The amount that do get posted, the first cloth nappy on a baby… Jenna: Fortunately they’re tiny and they have small output. Putting it on badly is not going to be a problem, but make sure all that information isn’t in your head, if you end up unable to do it, if you’re busy trying to do something else, the doctors are talking to you. Make sure your husband, mum, birth partner, wife, whoever it is that is your birth partner, knows how to put it on. Make sure that they’re informed and they know what your choices are as well. If you’re planning on doing it from birth. Don’t pressure yourself to do it from birth. I didn’t with my first. But I did this time around, because second time mum, obviously I know how to use a cloth nappy a little bit, and so that was pretty easy for me. I had a midwife come in and say, you’re doing pretty good doing cloth from birth. That’s a lot to, how did you know how to do it and organise it? Literally my job to tell people how to do this. If I can’t do it, it’s a problem. When you’re in the hospital, don’t be the jerk who rinses nappies in the sink or something like that, because that’s what gives cloth nappies a bad name and make hospitals ban them. That’s when you want a really big wet bag, or lots and lots of small wet bags. If you’ve got someone home like a mum or your husband is going home, they can take them home. Or wife. And they can take them home and wash them for you. Depends how long you’re there. Vicki: Yeah, because you’ve just pushed a fricken watermelon out of your… Jenna: Vagina. Or stomach. Either way it’s come out. Vashti: We just had about half a dozen double pocket wet bags and Brent just took one home every day. Vicki: How did it work for… I remember doing cloth in hospital when Gabe finally came out of special care. Did you deal with them? I don’t even remember, it was so long ago. Andrew: I must have… Jenna: This is why we didn’t leave the podcast to when I came back to work. Andrew: I must have just put them in the washing machine. Vicki: Yeah, Bella, both Bella and Gabe were cloth in hospital once they were out of NICU and special care. Andrew: I must have just put them in a wet bag and taken then home, I don’t remember doing it. Vicki: Yeah, I’ve got pictures of the clean nappies. I don’t have picture of the dirty nappies. Jenna: It just happens. Andrew: Because we did cloth from Abbie, so it was just second nature, so I don’t even remember doing it. Vicki: The only time we didn’t was when they were in special care or NICU. Andrew: Yeah, but as far as looking after the nappies and stuff like that, like you know, we did it so long it was just second nature. Vicki: Yeah, you probably just took them home and just brought them back, I don’t know. Andrew: It’s like driving down the same street every time. Sometimes you don’t remember driving down that street. Jenna: And that’s how I accidentally went to the wrong Coles the other day. Vicki: You what? Jenna: I was trying to go to, I was going to Coles and I needed to get something from the chemist. The best place to do that here is Middle Park, because it’s right there. And I drove into… Vicki: You know that’s the most expensive chemist in the area? Just for the record. Jenna: I had a newborn and a toddler, don’t care, needed thrush cream. Andrew: Yes, how he built his business. Jenna: Quick and open. Vicki: OK. Jenna: And I drove to Mount Ommaney and I was pulling into Mount Ommaney which the chemist and Coles are other end of the store… Vicki: I know, I know. Jenna: No, I will pay a few more dollars for my thrush cream to not walk to the other end of the store. Vicki: Fair call, fair call. Andrew: They used to be closer. Jenna: Then they moved. There is one on Sumners Road as well, but I needed to do Coles and that in one go. That is my rant about, I’m still very much at can I throw money at this problem, the baby is tiny and small. I’m still using the dryer a lot, we’re still in just like get through it mode. Vicki: Bit like me today actually. You can probably see that. Jenna: No, you look very awake. Yes, so cleaning in hospital. The plan was to have Mum come and take them home and wash them and stuff, but that’s when we thought we’d be there for four days and Ryan would be able to visit and everything, but because of Covid, that was not our reality in hospital this time. So we went home after two days, because we both wanted to see Ryan. So we didn’t even wash them in that time, just chucked them all in a wet bag and took them home and washed them there. So it’s not don’t worry about trying to wash them in hospital. Don’t. Make sure you’ve got a support person that’s either going home or can come and pick them up, if you’re there for a while. But if not, they’re tiny babies with very small output, just shove them in a wet bag until you can deal with them when you get home. Vashti: And the meconium? No stains? Jenna: No stains, easy peasy. I would love to say that that’s the first meconium I’ve washed out of cloth nappies, but it’s not. I also washed Jess’s out when she was in hospital. My best friend, they wanted to use cloth in hospital and had no one at home to wash them for her. So I actually said I’ll pick them up and I went and washed them for them and brought them back. Andrew: This is why Jenna is our washing expert on cloth nappies. Because she just doesn’t wash her own, she washes all of her friends ones so she can get as much experience as she can. Jenna: Yes, I’ve washed a few people’s cloth nappies. Vashti: It’s pretty easy, isn’t it? Jenna: It’s one of those things that it’s not that hard. I didn’t have the second kid yet and I could help out. It was something to take off a friend’s plate that I could do fairly easily. And I washed my friend’s for a few weeks actually because she had a newborn and lives down the road. She lives three houses down. It’s easy enough to walk down and grab them. Andrew: Did she wash them off first? Jenna: No, no, because I told her not to. She was recovering from a Caesar and I was like, let me do that for you, it’s fine. I have a sprayer. It’s easy peasy. Vicki: Especially with newborn poo. Jenna: My mother and I had an entire conversation because Ryan must have still been in nappies at that point, or maybe he was just out of them. And Mum and I were like, how good is this poo? Newborn poo is so delightful compared to a two and a half year old poo, I can just say. But yeah, like Vashti said, meconium comes out really easy. People get really scared by it because it’s black and scary, but honestly, I used a little bit of Sard spray I think and it came out, you couldn’t even tell where it was. You can use it fine. A lot of people get told to use cloth after the meconium is done for some reason, and there is no reason to do that. Like absolutely no reason to do that. Andrew: And that’s like, is that going to be for all nappies that are out there? Vicki: Yeah. Andrew: Cool. Jenna: It’s not like a particular brand or anything that will make a difference. Vicki: It’s almost like one of those myths. Andrew: OK. Vashti: Meconium is thick and sticky and tarry, but it washes. Vicki: It’s just still a protein. Jenna: I remember Jess’s, I rinsed it, Casey must have done Liam’s, but when I was doing Edison’s for Jess, I remember spraying it off and it was like bright red underneath. This is not going to come out. But I was feeling really lazy at the time, so I sprayed some Sard spray, chucked it through the wash and I thought, I’ll soak it afterwards if I need to. It came out perfectly, I couldn’t tell which nappy it was when it came out. So a little bit of Sunlight soap, a little bit of Sard spray may or may not be necessary. I just did it because I didn’t feel like soaking things. So that works really well. When you’re in the hospital… Vicki: You do have someone here who’s supposed to ask questions, but he just does nothing. Jenna: Ask questions. You have questions? Andrew: How are you doing, Jenna? Jenna: Who writes his questions a lot of the time, Vicki? Vicki: No idea. Not me. Jenna: Me. I didn’t bother writing questions for myself. Andrew: I always give Jenna credit when she asks the questions. Jenna: Take more than you think you’re going to need to the hospital, if you’ve got them, because newborns just poo and pee constantly. Tiny little poo machines. And when we talk about, we say you go through about 12 nappies a day for the first couple of months, three months. We’re not joking. We’re not joking, we’re not exaggerating to sell nappies, that’s what they do. And I’ve actually been, because I work in cloth nappies and I help a lot of people, but I hadn’t had a newborn in a while, I’ve actually been really conscious of checking that the information we’re giving people is accurate, and I’ve been counting his nappies. We’re washing every other day… Vicki: She makes this big excuse that this is the reason she’s counting nappies, but we said while you were pregnant that you would know exactly how many nappies you would use, because that’s you. Jenna: I really was doing it for work. I haven’t counted… Vicki: Let’s go with that, let’s go with that. Jenna: And I wasn’t recording them or anything like that. I mean I did the laundry and checked how many I was putting away and it was between 22 and 25 the first couple of months. He seems to have dropped. I hadn’t counted in a while and I counted last night. Vicki: He’s four months, isn’t he? Is he four months now? Vashti: Thirteen weeks today. Jenna: Thirteen months. Thirteen weeks today. Vashti sounds like she’s really on top of it. She also asked me just before I got here. Vicki: They drop at four months, roughly. Jenna: OK, I was on the phone to Keren last night and I counted, and he had 20 that I washed last night. Vicki: They start to drop down. Jenna: He’s actually dropped a nap so I’d say that’s where the, I’m changing one less nappy there. When I got home, we talk about types a little bit. When I got home, I was really liking the fitted nappies. The unnamed fitted nappies. Bam Bams are a great product, but fitted nappies are great. I think that’s the answer. Vicki: For two steps, yeah. Jenna: Two steps, two layers of protection and also what I really liked was they’re soft and foldable. So a prefold, a flat, a fitted, anything like that, that’s really soft and foldable is really nice around a newborn, I found. I really liked that, you’ve got those tiny chicken legs, they’re wiggling and stuff, and I found the softer they are, it’s like a little hug around them instead of something that was a bit stiffer to try and put on them. The first couple of weeks I didn’t like my all in ones, I didn’t like the all in twos, and once we hit about two weeks and just got a little bit of fat on his legs, those started to be a bit better. But yeah, fitted nappies are great for newborns and they’re great for boosting, because you don’t know how much they’re going to sleep at night, you don’t know what they’re magically going to do a six hour spurt and you don’t want to lose sleep from a nappy. So you can boost fitted nappies, which is really, really good. And that’s why I really am liking them at the moment. As far as covers go, for really small, I’m going to say some brands here. For really small babies… sorry, when the babies are really small I really like Thirstees. I’m sure there’s some others that you recommend for small ones. The Bubblebubs covers are quite large. We do that on purpose because we’re responding to feedback that they were too small and they weren’t growing with enough room for the kids. And it depends, everyone has their different goals with cloth. If your goal is to save every single cent, then you don’t want covers that are only going to last you a couple of months. Vashti: But the Bubblebubs ones also have more room in the booty to fit over a flat. Vicki: And you had a small baby, too. Jenna: Yep, so it depends on your budget, it depends on your baby, like nothing I’m saying here is prescriptive. I really liked those at first. When he started doing a little bit more time at night, the shape of the Bubblebubs one for boosting I my absolute favourite. Vashti: Amazing. Jenna: I have a bunch of different brands of covers and I cannot beat the Bubblebubs ones for boost, for the shape of a night nappy to have that extra boost. Vicki: It’s about every 12 months I have this conversation about should we make a small one? Vashti: And I keep telling you, don’t. Vicki: Should we make the newborn one smaller? And it’s like no, it’s only literally a couple of weeks, if that. It’s a tough fit. Jenna: And that’s what I mean, it’s a bit of a fiddly fit for those first few weeks, and if your biggest goal is to save money and you don’t have the budget, that’s fine. I’m lucky enough to have the budget to have the Thirstees… Vicki: I’m paying you too much. Clearly. Jenna: But I own my set with three people. Vashti: That’s what I was about to say, you’re sharing your nappies with other people. Vicki: You’re supposed to be on my side. Jenna: It’s in my talking point here, it’s in my talking point here. I told you, you agreed to a 200% pay rise, you just weren’t paying attention. Vicki: Zero times zero equals zero. Vashti: Zero times 200 equals zero. Andrew: I’ve just got to say something so people know I’m still here. Jenna: Hi, Andrew. Casey once asked a girl, Casey’s friend was hitting on a girl, and he went to the bathroom, and while he was in the bathroom, Casey asked the girl what happens if you divide by zero. And by the time Henry came back from the bathroom, the girl was like crying and sobbing and was like, your friends are horrible and walked away. He interfered with his friend’s ability to chat to that girl anymore. I’m sorry, I can’t, whenever anyone talks about dividing and timesing by zero, I can’t help thinking about it. I forgot my friend’s husband’s name the other day, which doesn’t sound that stupid, until you find out her husband’s name. Andrew: Jack? Jenna: Liam. Vashti: But you can’t even remember your own son’s name. It’s just not Ryan. Jenna: Not Ryan, he’s at home. Ryan, not Ryan and Big Ryan. That’s fine, it’s easy, I’ve got this. Andrew: Ryan Version 2.0. Jenna: Yes. He so doesn’t look like Ryan actually. He doesn’t. That was the first thing I thought when they put him on my chest. I looked at him, oh my God, it’s not Ryan. Vashti: That’s not Ryan. Jenna: It’s a whole new human being. I had, I don’t know if it’s the two boys in a row thing, but I had a lot of trouble getting my head around the fact that it was a whole new human. It’s not going back and doing the newborn stage again, it’s a new newborn stage. Vicki: I’m having a déjà vu moment, except oh, that one’s got a penis. That was literally the only difference between Bella and Gabe. I literally took one look at him and when ah, that’s Bella. Oh, no it’s not. Jenna: No, Liam looked so different to Ryan as a baby. Yeah. Vicki: My two little ones are just clones of each other. Jenna: My brother and I were like that. We were up to cloth nappy types. We were talking about that. Vashti: You were doing fitteds. Jenna: Yes, fitteds, and one of the things I discovered, even on some of the covers I had over the fitteds and even on a fitted I had that was a Canadian one I bought as a present when I was there. Present to myself. Vicki: Bummies? Jenna: It’s got a little whale on it. Sam something, and it’s got a whale on it. Andrew: Moby Dick? Jenna: We walked past a cloth nappy store when I was in Canada. I was like hoo, hoo, yay and went in, and that’s what I bought myself for the baby that I wasn’t pregnant with yet. Vicki: I’m ignoring him. I got it. Jenna: It’s OK, your wife will laugh at your jokes. Andrew: She doesn’t always, that’s great, she got that one. Vashti: I did get it, I was trying not to. Jenna: Vicki is delusional from tiredness. Oh God, she’s started thinking Andrew is funny, we’ve got to help her. Vicki: Please, let me get my napping couch. Jenna: It’s been taken up at the moment. Vicki: It is, too. We will not discuss that in the podcast, thank you, why my napping couch is not available. Jenna: One thing I discovered, I don’t like snaps on newborns, and this is all personal preference. I’m not sure, Vashti might have some comments here, but cannot stand snaps on a newborn. Vashti: Nope. Jenna: Not on covers, not the fitted nappy I had, had snaps, and I still didn’t like that. I preferred doing it up with a snappy. But any of my covers that had snaps on them, was not a fan, couldn’t stand them. There was something about the tiny baby, trying to push it, and have the resistance against it, get it to the exact shape, because the tiny little legs, I don’t know what it was, but couldn’t stand anything with a snap on it when he was very small. Vashti: There’s also the issue that with a snap, you have to go exactly where the snaps are. And for a teeny, tiny baby, if they’re halfway between a snap, those few mils will make or break the nappy. Jenna: Absolutely. Vashti: It’s about getting your hand underneath the nappy so you can snap it down, so you’re not pressing the snap into their tummy. There’s so many things. So Velcro or Snappies or Boingos all the way for a newborn. Jenna: Totally agree, that was definitely my take away. I was like, and I couldn’t stand Velcro with Ryan when he was older. Vashti: God no, they take it off. Jenna: I definitely have a Velcro newborn, snap when they’re older preference, I’ve noticed. Vashti: But in saying that as well, we have found, at Nest we have found quite a few people are loving the side snap on a newborn. So I don’t know what it is. It’s different to doing it up on the waist, when you’re trying to press down on the waist, to press down on the hips, it’s different. Vicki: You don’t have to put your fingers in. Jenna: I know Rose totally disagrees with me. Vicki: Yeah, she does, she completely disagrees with… Jenna: And everything is personal preference, that’s why it’s so hard, just as a mum even, when someone says what do you like about A, B or C and even when you’re out of nappies, people say what’s a baby product you can totally do without? The amount of times someone will say a baby bath. I love our baby bath I use it every night with Liam. I used it every night with Ryan, it’s something that I absolutely love. Lots of people will be like, really, who does that? Felt that way about… Vicki: I’m here judging you. Jenna: I know you are. I can feel it radiating here. And that’s what I mean, it’s hard. Everything with babies, what works for one mum won’t work for another. Andrew: Oh mate, we should talk to the Strucket lady, she could make a Strucket bath. Jenna: You could drip the baby and dry them off. It would be perfect. Vashti: No, one of my customers was using the Strucket to bath her baby in. Because it was the perfect size. Vicki: Kelly, you must listen to this podcast. Here’s an idea for you. Andrew: Copyright us, today, but you can make it. Jenna: The Bubble-Strucket, that’s fine. Vicki: The Bubble-Strucket. Andrew: The baby bathing Strucket, because the inside, the inner thing you could lift them up and drain them. That’s brilliant. Vicki: It’s actually not, I don’t think it’s a really bad idea. Jenna: Andrew’s making like a motion here of like draining the baby. Andrew: Dripping it as well. Vicki: If you put one of those soft inserts and stuff like that, this is really doable. And whoever invents this from this podcast, my bank account details are. Andrew: Send us one, we will sell it on Bubblebubs. Jenna: Mine is not a Strucket, but I like my baby bath, whereas I know lots of people who don’t. So this is always going to be different, and I know… Vicki: That’s like me, I couldn’t do without a swing. I don’t even think you have a swing. Jenna: I sold ours. Vicki: There you go. Jenna: I had one with Ryan and used it two or three times, and I was like, you know what, this is taking up room. And I sold it between the kids. Vicki: Whereas I would not have a baby without a side swing and sing. Jenna: And Rose and I totally disagree. Our kids are around the same age, so we got to test out the new, unbranded side snapping nappy. Vicki: Oh yeah, that one. Jenna: And we had very different opinions. Andrew: What’s that thing called again? Jenna: I’m not naming it. Andrew: BoPeep. Jenna: It’s unnamed. It’s an unnamed side snapping newborn nappy and no one knows what we’re talking about, Andrew it’s a secret. Andrew: No, it confuses people. Vicki: Like the secret that got let out in a podcast, months ago. Oh yes, it’s going to be available by X, Y, Z. Jenna: What products do you think are going to be available by the time this comes out, Vicki? Vicki: You know what I’m actually tired enough to accidentally say stuff, so I shall not. Jenna: I really wish I knew what products she was talking about. Vashti: So do I, I don’t know. Vicki: Keren does. Andrew: That’s what happens when you don’t turn up to the meetings. Jenna: I wasn’t invited to the meetings. Andrew: Oh, yeah, that’s what happens when we don’t bother to invite you to meetings. Vashti: That’s what happens when you go and have a baby and go on maternity leave. Jenna: I was going to say, I’m on maternity leave. Let me be clear here. I love Bubblebubs, I care deeply about the company. I really like that I don’t know what the hell she’s talking about right now. I will care in a few months. Andrew: And funny thing is, normally when we’re talking about something on the podcast, it’s out. But Jenna still won’t be back at work by the time this comes out. Jenna: Yeah, we’re not as far ahead. Andrew: This is like two months away. You still won’t be. Jenna: I will care again in December. Vicki: It will… I’m not saying anything, because I have already, already… Vashti: I think three for three. Jenna: I think the word we’re after is hubris. Vicki: Of course. Andrew: I thought the word was screwed up. Vicki: Yes, no, no, no, I’m not that cocky anymore. Jenna: Yes, hubris. Vicki: At all. Andrew: To be honest though, Vicki is always working on a new product. There hasn’t been very many times when she hasn’t had something new coming through. Vashti: We just had new products arrive at Nest yesterday for testing. I should have brought them to you. Jenna: I love a new test nappy. I love opinions. Vicki: Again, this is why I’m up at 3:00 am, because literally that’s the ideas time. Or my liver, my liver key. My qi sorry, my liver qi. Jenna: I have a newborn nappy and I was not up at 3:00 am. Newborn baby. [laughter] Vicki: It’s when I like to podcast. I just have these amazing ideas and I’m like, I have to get them down now, because I’ll forget. Andrew: We’ll have Jenna on the podcast again when she does come back to work so we can compare normal Jenna to baby brain Jenna. Jenna: Baby brain Jenna is pretty spectacular, we’ve had some really good ones. It’s, yes, there’s a new term. It’s called a Jenna typo. That’s when you write a sentence and you make a typo that actually reverses the meaning of the sentence. So you say I can’t do that, when you mean can do that. Vicki: Yes, I’ve received some of those texts. Jenna: At this point, Jess just goes, Jenna typo? And we assume that’s what I meant. Except, now I’m wearing off and she’s doing it. So everyone is stupid together. Vicki: It’s OK, it comes back. Jenna: Meghan seems to be the one with the brain which is good, because she administers medicine to small babies and small children. So it’s a good thing she’s the one with the brain. So one type of nappy I will talk about that I didn’t use a lot but should definitely be mentioned when it comes to newborns is prefolds. For some reason, and it’s just that I’ve been liking the fitteds we’re using, I haven’t been reaching for my prefolds. Prefolds are really, really good, they make great boosters later. Again, it depends whether you’re after economy, ease of use, all that kind of thing, because prefolds are great to use now and also use as boosting later, whereas a fitted nappy won’t. You can’t use that for boosting later really. So that definitely doesn’t have the flexibility. But for some reason, I loved prefolds on Ryan, I just haven’t been reaching for them this time, and I think it’s because I own a ridiculous amount of Bam Bams. I will get to my stash and how to purchase cloth nappies and a good way to do it at the end. I’m not leaving it out, I’m coming back to it. But I do own a ludicrous amount of newborn nappies. The next thing on my thing is talking about that. Andrew: Next time the company runs out of Bam Bams we’re just going to take them off Jenna. Jenna: Well I won’t have them anymore, because I’m gifting the to the next person. My, so there’s a few ways to go about doing newborn nappies. We can’t ignore the elephant in the room, and that’s cost. It does mean basically buying an entire second stash of nappies. And probably more of them, because they’re going through more each day. But because they don’t use them as long, there’s a bunch of really good ways to save money. First of all is just buying second hand. If you buy good quality, second hand nappies, that’s a really, really good way to get into newborn cloth without the huge upfront cloth. The other way is the reverse of that. It’s to buy them new and sell them when you’re done with them, because most of them will hold, if you’re only using them for three to six months, most of them will hold about 50% of their value if you’re using a premium brand, to resell. Vicki: And that’s actually being really conservative. Vashti: That’s being very conservative. Vicki: But that’s 100% that what I say, is 50%. Jenna: In real life I say, at the expo I say, we say 50%, I know people have sold them for 75%, that’s how I put it. Vashti: I had a customer who bought in bulk, used them for four months, broke it up and then actually made money off her newborn stash. Jenna: See, newborn premium nappies have great resale value, absolutely great resale value. Vicki: We’ve actually got a really cool e-book on the reasons to use newborn nappies, so we should link that on. Jenna: So that’s definitely, you buying them at full price and then selling them is an option as well. And that’s a really good way to do it if you’re not comfortable buying… Vicki: That’s the advantage of buying in bulk. Jenna: If you’re not comfortable buying… Vashti: Second hand. Jenna: Second hand, buy them and then you sell them. The other one is what I’ve done, and this all depends on timing and friendship groups and whatever. But what I actually did is I bought the stash with two other people. We went thirds on the stash. One was pregnant at the time. One was nearly due, one had just gotten pregnant and I was about to start trying. So we knew that none of us were going to need it at the same time, so what we did is we shared the cost of the stash together, and I had some left over from when Ryan was little and I didn’t have a full newborn stash then. So that is why I own 40 something Bam Bams and 40 something Pebbles, and… Andrew: Hey? 40 something Pebbles? Jenna: We’ve been through this. Vicki: Jo’s, they were Jo’s. Even though we told Jo. Jenna: I was leaving her name out. I said someone bought a full stash of Pebbles when we said they weren’t a good idea. Vicki: Don’t buy a full stash of Pebbles. Actively say that, actively say that. Don’t buy a full stash of… Jenna: No, they’re not great to have a full stash of. And she did that when we told her not to, so I have all of her Pebbles, which she sold me for half price. So again, we did not, I have a lot of nappies for not that much money. And I will say… Vashti: Plus you work for a nappy company, so you get a cheaper price anyway. Vicki: She actually did she we can’t use her baby the other day. She said, I don’t need any more nappies. She literally said that. Jenna: Because I had a friend who had her baby and this was, I was very lucky during Covid, I got to have a hospital visit. One of my best friends had her baby two days after us. And I was like, if my friend is on the ward… don’t care, just don’t leave the ward. And I was like, yes. So we actually got to have a visit with the baby in the hospital. So I have a friend who lives near here. Her fourth kid and her first ones, she used very old school washing routine and her nappies did not survive. They were dying on the third kid. So I gave her a bunch of mine, I’ve given her a ton of my old nappies already, and I knew she’s building up more of a stash, so when Andrew said they needed a baby, I was like, how about I sub one in who doesn’t… we really don’t need more nappies. And I was like, I know someone who does want more nappies and has a really cute kid. Here, have this one. I organised a baby. But yes, I was going to say, with the Pebbles, I didn’t use those with Ryan because they didn’t exist before Ryan was born, but we really liked the Tot Spots, we had Tot Spots… Vashti: Teeny fits? Jenna: Yeah, we got lent… Vicki: We should just say, we’re talking about all in ones here. We’re talking brands, which is why we try not to talk brands. Jenna: We’re talking all in ones here, so that means the whole thing is all in one, so you don’t have to match it up when you’re doing your washing, but they do tend to take longer to dry. Vashti: It’s just like a disposable, you just have to wash it. Jenna: Exactly, dead easy to use, but you can’t boost them, that’s the down side. But with newborns, that’s pretty OK. So I don’t really like all in ones past newborns stage, but I did quite like them with this. We had the all in ones Tot Spots. I got lent the stash, so I don’t them as well. Vashti: Yeah, it’s Tot Spots Teeny Fits. So they’ve got, instead of the flat sitting on top, it sits into a pocket, which actually does give you a little bit of room to pop a booster in there, like a face washer or something. Jenna: But your husband can’t stuff them for you, because his hands are too big. That is a problem with those. Vicki: There’s multiple different ways. Vashti: You can just leave the snake on the top, you don’t have to pop it in the pocket. Jenna: I didn’t have a problem, it was just literally, I could do it, he could not. Vashti: Casey has large hands though. Jenna: He’s 6’2, generally speaking large. He has ridiculously large feet too. Vicki: Oh my God, I was waiting for it. The feet comment did it. Jenna: This is going to sound, it’s so boring and innocent. His friends were around the other night, and they were all comparing, they had their shoes out comparing their, not in a dirty way, they were just laughing because one of the guys, his are feet are split, it’s a podcast I can’t say it, his feet were two of mind long. They were disturbingly large. I was looking at his shoes and I’m like, are these clown shoes? Vashti: My 14 year old has bigger feet than me, and I have a firm grip on the world. Vicki: I can’t think of… Jenna: A firm grip on the world, I’ve never heard that. Vicki: I can’t, I can’t. Jenna: Your mind is in the gutter, OK? Get out of the gutter, Vicki. Vicki: I can’t believe that you’ve just compared your son… Vashti: We were talking about shoes. Andrew: I’m still here, by the way. Vashti: Oh my God, crying, crying. Jenna: Anyhoo. Vashti: See, we go from nappies to shoes. Jenna: Sorry, we went to shoes, Vicki went somewhere else. Vicki: It is not just me that knows that fact, is it? Jenna: Yeah, it is. Vicki: Thank you, I’m thinking that I’m just got this hugely dirty mind and I don’t, I really don’t. Jenna: No, I was literally just thinking about Casey and his friends comparing shoes at the door the other day. Vashti: But I was trying to be clean. Andrew: She cleaned it up, she said shoes. Vashti: I was talking about shoes, Vicki is just perverting everything here. Hey, I talked about my own foot size, OK, and I don’t have one of those, so it’s all good. Jenna: You don’t? I was just liking the firm grip on the world, I’ve not heard that before. We were talking about something useful. Andrew: Check your notes. Jenna: We were talking about… Vashti: You were talking about stuffing and hand size. Jenna: That’s where we were, yes, all in ones. That’s what we were talking about. Andrew: Oh, that’s where the path happened. Jenna: All in one nappies. Vashti: We can stuff lots of things. Andrew: Hands, to feet. Jenna: All in ones are very good nappies. Vashti: They are easy, they are so easy. Jenna: They are easy and what I was really liking and actually I totally stole this off Jess, because this is what she was doing, when I get Liam up, I was putting an all in one on him for his wake time, because it was nice and easy to do, then we’d have some nice wake time, some boob and put him down, and for his nap, I was then putting a Bam Bam on him with a booster. Because he was having two hour naps and three hour naps at that point, so I was putting him down with a Bam Bam and a booster, just in case. And then, so that was what was working really well for me. I’m a big fan of having a few things in your stash, because different things work for different moments in your day, for different moments in the kids wetting, how much they’re sleeping and all that. Growth spurts. My goodness, that five week floody growth spurt that we talked about, uh hum, I can confirm that is perfectly accurate because I was like, what is up with this kid? No, I was hungry, I was starving, I was getting lightheaded because I didn’t realise I wasn’t eating enough, and I went around and around until I realised what it was, and I was like, why am I so hungry, and Jess was like… Vicki: You’re pregnant? Jenna: No. [laughter] Vashti: Touch wood, touch wood. Jenna: We’ve fixed that already. Andrew: It looked like Jenna got a wave of… Jenna: Panic? Vashti: Nausea? Andrew: Nausea. Maybe you are sick. I mean, pregnant. Jenna: We’re done with that. Vicki: No Irish twins happening. Jenna: The office is closed. No more any of them happening. Vicki: Do you know, side note, how many customers say that and then come back? Me, have you known me to… I’m just saying it is so super common to see someone bye, see you from the nappy world. Jenna: Hi, Rose. Vicki: You miss them, well Rose didn’t accidentally fall pregnant. It took a lot of work. Jenna: But she did say she didn’t want to have another kid. Vashti: I have seven years between my younger two. So we were so done, this shop was closed, and then… hello. Vicki: Same with Gabe, my surprise baby as well. Jenna: The term I’m using, hey everyone who wants to know my personal life. The term I’m using is I’m confident, not arrogant. So I’m getting a Mirena while we double check that that’s definitely the decision we’re making, and that gives us five years to double check that we are feeling complete as a family before snip snip. Hey, Casey. He listens to this podcast, definitely. He wants to hear more of me talking. Andrew: Does that mean his shoe size is going to get smaller? Jenna: I don’t know, did yours? Ooh. Andrew: Oh, burn. No, my shoes are still the same. Jenna: I could see where he was going, I was prepared there. It’s very hard to talk about nappies without somehow ending up with penises. Vashti: Well that’s because you have two penises, well three that you’re dealing with. Jenna: All three of them had a bath last night. I was trying to take a photo. You cannot take a clean photo of that, just by the way. Penis soup. Andrew: We’ll get a photo and we’ll publish it in the show notes. Jenna: The whole thing is just a blur. Vicki: Oh, my God, penis soup. Andrew: Where do I point, where do I point? Jenna: Can I blame the snort laugh on Vicki and pretend it wasn’t me? Vicki: I’m even too tired to laugh. Jenna: Vicki just looks really tired. What were we talking about? Vicki: Penis soup. Vashti: I think we’re done, I think we’re so done. Jenna: No, I had an actual thing… Vashti: Shoes? Jenna: No, I did say I did make the really first time mum mistake of I was holding him and I got weed straight out of. And I’m like no, not facing the right direction. And actually I did have… Vicki: Oh, you’re talking about the five week flood? Jenna: That’s what it was. Definitely went through that. All the things aligned. I was starving, Jess was like, remember he fussed and fed all yesterday? Yep, that’s what it is. And suddenly this huge output increase for about a week and then it dropped off again. But yeah, it was really interesting watching those things we talk about to customers and kind of know is a thing, actually experiencing and going yep, that’s bang on. That’s where that is, what’s where this is. It was really interesting experiencing that after talking about that for so long to people. Vicki: Well now he’s 13 weeks old, has he gone through the sleep regression? Jenna: Not yet. You’ve no idea how much, you know my experience… Vicki: Yeah, you’re not a fan of no sleep. Jenna: I’m sitting here on tenterhooks waiting for that to happen. He’s actually, knock on all the wood, sleeping through the night. And I won’t calm down and be happy about that until we hit five months. Because that was, for those who may or may not know four months sleep regression for Ryan hit us really bad and it was not pleasant and I ended up at not a good place before I was ready to have another kid. So I’m scared and waiting. Scared and waiting is where we are. But back onto nappies. So no actually, I’ve hit all my points, and we’ve talked about penis soup, so I think we’ve covered pretty much everything. Vicki: Wow. Jenna: Actually no, I know what I haven’t talked about. Rinsing off newborn poop. Hate to break this to everyone, but it’s basically just luck of the draw. Some kids, and it’s not formula or breast or anything like that, some kids seem to have stainy poo, and some kids don’t. So it’s probably something scientific like bilirubin. It will be something in your diet, there will be something, but I don’t know what it is. But I’ve been lucky and I’ve had one of those kids, I’m still not rinsing nappies, I’m just chucking them straight in the washing machine and coming out perfectly clean. Now that I replaced my washing machine, by the way. Turns out, if your washing machine is starting to crap itself, it won’t clean our nappies. I was like emailing, I was messaging and CCing admin, because I cannot cope saying I cannot get my nappies clean. I was like, I should know how to do this. This is embarrassing, I can clean nappies, it’s silly, I help people do this. And I was like asking all these questions, and the next day the machine stopped and wasn’t draining and would start flooding cycles and filling up with water and then not draining. Oh, the machine is crapping itself, that’s what it was. So I replaced the machine and all of a sudden the nappies are sparkling clean again. Vashti: Lovely. Andrew: What did you get? Jenna: Bosch Series 8. Vashti: Did you get the German made? Jenna: German made one. Vashti: Yeah, same as us. Jenna: Yeah, got the German made one. Vicki: She got the same one as us. Jenna: I managed to have it, I was without a washing machine for 21 hours. I managed. Vashti: Wow, that’s impressive. Jenna: Online delivery, no Online Appliances, is that what it’s called? Vicki: Appliances Online. Jenna: Appliances Online. They’d do a 24 hour delivery and they take away the old one. I’m talking to the guy, OK, this is what I’m after. It needs to be quiet. The machine is outside his room, and going through everything with him. You talk very fast. I have two kids that are both nappying and I need a washing machine. He goes, my sister in law talks that fast. I’m like, how many kids does she have? Oh, how do you know she has kids? She has four. Yep, she doesn’t have time, she’s trying to get the words out. So yeah, luckily we were only without a washing machine for 21 hours. I did get three loads behind in that time of course. Spewy baby, it’s coming out both ends. Casey and I have several changes a day and it goes for about seven hours a day. So super fun. Vashti: Love it. Are you literally in bodily fluids? Jenna: Oh, all the time, yeah. Ankle deep. The other day I got weed on. I was doing, I’d taken him out of the bath, I was holding him, he didn’t have a nappy because he had a little bit of a rash, so I had a towel around him, he peed on me. I was like oh God, then Ryan did something, something else happened. By the time I remembered, I’d been peed on and it had dried, and I was, whatever. And then that night I got him out of his bath and again he peed on the same leg, and I was like, at least I didn’t change my pants. And that’s reality being the mum of a newborn, isn’t it? Vicki: The poo is nothing. Jenna: And that’s the great thing about doing cloth nappies, is no matter whether you do cloth or not, you’re going to be covered in bodily fluids. At least in cloth nappies you know how to clean them well and you’re doing intensive cycles every day, or every other day. Like so it makes it really easy to get all that spewy stuffy clean. I don’t have lingering spew smell or anything, everything comes out…. Vicki: Our mouldy bibs. I suppose you’re not at bib stage anyway. Jenna: I never use bibs. Never use them. Vicki: Oh really? Andrew: That’s because she washes so much. Jenna: Ryan was that kid that had it from literally forehead to chest. Vicki: So it would have been useless. Jenna: It was just another thing to wash. I tried to use them. Now I wash this and the t-shirt. So I just gave up and went bib-less, wiped the kid down and washed the t-shirt every time. And actually the best high chair ever was the Ikea one. You can just chuck it in the shower. Shhhh. I have an Ikea one too, but the wooden ones are not showerable. Vicki: No, you just want one that’s actually, are they pretty? No. Are they practical? Yes. Jenna: Is it custom painted to match the rest of my house? Yes. Vicki: OK, see there’s a Jenna thing. You know, I’m all about practical. Jenna: I was about recycling. I recycled for my friend. And that was a bit chipped and worn, so my lovely father when we were in Europe, repainted it for me to match my house, which was nice. He’s a sucker. Vicki: And he listens to the podcast? Jenna: He knows he’s a sucker, it’s fine to mention it. I thought he was a sucker for me, I have nothing on Ryan. That kid has a full Brio set at my parents place. You’ve been to my parents house. They have the lounge room and then there’s a big wall and a hallway and everything. The Brio set goes all around that wall and back again. The one that lives at that house for when he goes for sleepovers. Andrew: What’s a Brio set? Jenna: Train set, the wooden ones. Andrew: Oh yeah. Jenna: I thought he was a sucker for me. I’ve got nothing on Ryan. Who incidentally, Dad is also excellent in cloth nappies. He’s, as far as grandparents go, he’s the king of the cloth nappies in grandparents in our family. Vicki: He’s a good photographer too. Jenna: Pardon? Vicki: He’s a good photographer too. Jenna: He is a good photographer. He’s taken a lot of pictures of kid butts. You’re welcome, Dad. Andrew: With nappies on though. Jenna: Yes, it’s better. Vicki: Try getting him to do the penis soup picture. Jenna: Penis soup picture, if there was a way to take a picture of the penis soup. Vashti: I’m not sure Casey would like Jenna’s father taking a photo of his penis. Andrew: I had to use so much photoshop. Vashti: For a second when you came out with that, I was thinking about Jenna’s father being in the penis soup photo. Jenna: Oh, no. Vicki: Maybe you should just like all their shoes up. Andrew: I think that should be enough. Jenna: I’m sorry, Dad. Andrew: Anything else you want to cover, Jenna? Jenna: No, I’m trying to think of some way to sum things up, but I’m an exhausted mother of a 13 week old. Vashti: Do what works for you. Jenna: The point of this story was, people always ask for experiences, so we wanted to give you an experience of what I did, what worked for me… Vicki: While you still remembered it. Jenna: I’ve already forgotten bits of it. Because I think Casey must have rinsed his meconium. And yeah, do what works for you. Vicki: Because it’s funny that you keep saying that you’re loving the Bam Bams, you’re loving the Bam Bams, because you said oh my word, I’m reaching for the all in ones. And you didn’t even, you barely mentioned it. You were like the fitted, the fitted because that’s where you’re at now. Jenna: Yeah, that’s true. Also because he’s grown out of the Pebbles. Also I can’t work out. Vicki: See, I didn’t even mention them. It was just the all in ones. Jenna: The all in ones. It’s because I can’t work out how to mention it in a way that sounds good and on brand, that I wasn’t sure how much I’d like the all in ones, and I actually really like them. Because they’re a cute product, they’re fun, they’re easy. Vicki: They get people over the line. Jenna: They get people over the line and they’re a great way to dip your toe if you’re a little scared by a Bam Bam. But I was actually really pleasantly surprised by how much I really liked the all in ones. I really was. I was a little dubious and I was like, well I got them at a cheap price, I’ll go and see. I wanted to test my newborn range so I could talk about it and help people in the future, but man, I really liked them. I really did. I thought, like Vashti said, they’re like a disposable. They’re so, so easy to use. They are, you throw them on and they’re done, and they’re nice and easy to fit, and you’re just off. I only had one, I think I had two leaks, and one was a Pebble and one was a Bam Bam when you were there, when Vicki came and visited me. I was holding Liam on his side and he pooped, I didn’t realise, and he actually managed to get out of a Bam Bam and a Thirstees cover. Vashti: Wow, that’s impressive. Jenna: That was before he went on the probiotics, when his poo was very explosive and acidic and giving him a rash and a burn. And then we went on probiotics and that’s then calmed down. But that’s when it was really explosive. Andrew: So it burns when you touch it? Jenna: No, him, his bot. Not me. And I’m not touching it, because I know how to change a nappy properly. And I remember Vicki was like see, that’s why you need double gussets. And I was like, they are double gussets. And she was like, oh wow, she was like oh. She looked at me, you’ve got poop on, do you know that? I was like, no I don’t know that. Don’t forget to beat that one. Would you like a clean poo? Andrew: Yep. Jenna: Poo. Andrew: I will copy and paste. Jenna: I also left my drink there, would you like a clean poo, I thought it was something else. Andrew: I won’t copy and paste that. Jenna: But yeah, so we’ve had two little leaks. But one of them was a bad fit, the pebble had a gap in it. That won’t keep the poo in, just by the way. And the other one was, it was really explosive and I was every impressed that it got out of there. But other than that, we’ve not had pee leak, we’ve not had poo leak, other than those two. We just change outfits all day because we’re covered in poo. But yes, do what works for you. Vashti’s right, what works for me is not going to be what works for everyone else, and what your goals are is going the same for everyone else. You might want a newborn stash that lasts for ages and ages and ages, and get as much use as you can out of it. You might want a newborn stash that fits really, really well early on because you’ve got the money or you’re sharing with a friend and can afford something that works perfect from day dot, fits perfect from day dot, but you only use for two or three months. Everyone has their different goals and the best thing to do is reach out to groups, reach out to, I just… reach out to groups, reach out to retailers, reach out to people in the community and talk about what you want. Vicki: Yeah, don’t ask what brand though. Style, go style over brand. Jenna: And actually what even helps is say, budget is my most important thing. Ease of use is my most important thing. Work out what it is you want, because you can’t just go in saying I want to use cloth nappies, and what’s the best, because there is no best. But take some time and work out what it is that you’re trying to achieve and that will make it really easy to pick what product is for you. Vashti: And ask you friends. Vicki: And read the e-book. Because I wrote the e-book, just for the record, and it actually really breaks it down, and once you work out what style, then you ask what brand. Don’t ask what’s the best nappy? Find out what’s going to be the best for you and then ask OK, I want an all in one, what does everybody recommend? Or I want an all in two, what does everyone recommend? Don’t go, oh what nappy do you use? Jenna: And multi-brand retailers, if you’ve got one near you that you can go play with, with nappies, or call them online. Some of them here do skype sessions and talk to their customers. Vashti: We do. Jenna: Multi-brand retailers are a really great resource because they see all the nappies, they play with all the nappies and they know all the nappies. They know what works well together. They know that… Vicki: They can put multiple brands together too. Jenna: …one brand’s cover works well with another brand’s fitted nappy, for instance, theoretically. They know. So they are a really good resource, they’re really worth reaching out to and talking to. Vashti: And don’t forget, just because you don’t have a shop near you, doesn’t mean that you can’t touch base with a multi-brand retailer. There are heaps of online multi-brand retailers around Australia, who have showrooms in their house or are prepared to come to our house with a selection of products to show you and stuff like that. Vicki: I actually can’t think of any states that don’t have that. Maybe Northern Territory? Vashti: Yeah, no there’s a couple of retailers up in Darwin. So you know, there is a multi-brand retailer pretty much everywhere in Australia. Vicki: I mean we are of course talking metro. Vashti: Yeah, metro regions. Vicki: If you’re in [inaudible, 54:09] I would recommend… Vashti: What were you going to say? Vicki: I was going to say, if you’re in butt [beep] nowhere, if you’re in the middle of the bush. Vashti: If you’re in Camooweal on the Northern… Jenna: Where the heck is Camooweal? Vashti: Camooweal is on the border of the Northern Territory and Queensland. So that’s the way… Vicki: OK, I would have even said something like Alice Springs, but you know. Vashti: Well Camooweal and Burke… Jenna: What’s at Camooweal… Vashti: I’ve been through Camooweal so many times it’s not funny. I used to live in Darwin. Jenna: Fair enough, that makes sense. Vashti: Broome. I don’t think Broome has a retailer any more. But Kalgoorlie and stuff like that, they don’t have retailers, but they are in Dubbo. Jenna: They’re not too far away, and they’re all happy to help. That’s the thing. They’re all small businesses that are happy to work one on one with you, to work out what’s the right nappy for you and what your goals are. So the best thing you can do is work out what your goals are and what’s important to you, because if you don’t know that, you can’t pick the right nappy for you. And also, have a variety. Have a few of each, and because babies go through growth spurts and they wee more, or they have a weird fit stage, or you’re tired and you reach for all in ones all day because you’re tired and you can’t be bothered with trying to do two steps on something. Vashti: And that’s OK, you can be tired. Vicki: I can be tired? Can I just go to sleep? Jenna: You can’t be tired, you’re not allowed to be. Other people can be tired. Actually that’s one thing, make sure you have, again, this depends on your priorities and this is coming from a place of privilege. I totally see that. But if you’ve got the money to have a decently large newborn stash, it really does help. Honestly, I am a very organised people. Very organised people? I don’t speak the English. I’m a very organised person, I think everyone here would agree with that. I have a ton of help. I have a supportive husband, cleaner, Mum, anything you can want. I still get behind on my laundry. I still have like four days of nappies to fold at some point. So if you have the budget, get extra flats, get some extra prefolds. Just bulk it out with some of the cheaper ones, even if they’re not what you’re using all the time, so that you’re not stressing yourself, so that it’s not an extra burden on you to have to do. Vashti: The last thing you want is to be running to Coles at five minutes to nine to buy a packet of disposables because you’ve not done the washing. Jenna: And don’t be hard on yourself if you have to do part time. Don’t be hard, like I said, I have all the support in the world. I’m using the dryer at the moment because it’s winter and I know that if I hang them on the line, they’re going to be out there all day and then still need the dryer for half an hour to get completely dry. And I can’t be bothered. I’m tired. I’m putting adult clothes on the line, but the nappies are going all in the dryer still, and it’s just meant I can get them back and folded in the one day and it’s easier, and it’s just, don’t put the extra pressure on yourself. Vicki: Yeah, don’t worry about folding them, just leave them in the basket. Just tip them into the drawer. You can do that. Jenna: I fold nappies, but I don’t know if you have actually looked inside those boxes of my kids clothes. I’ve got all Liam’s clothes in the boxes, in the Ikea… Vicki: I don’t even fold my own clothes. Jenna: I fold our clothes, but the kids clothes are just shoved in Ikea boxes, and it looks neat and it doesn’t bother me, but I don’t fold the kids clothes because that’s insanity. Vicki: Do you know what? At the end of the day, I’m not doing your washing, so you get zero judgement from me, and you’re not doing my washing. Jenna: That’s all that matters. Vicki: You do you. Jenna: I’m a firm believer that the cleanliness of someone’s house is like sex in someone’s marriage. As long as the people in there are happy, that’s what matters. Vicki: Shall we end there? Vashti: On that note… Jenna: Anyway, covered nappies and penis soup, all good. Andrew: And obviously, always look after yourself. All: Yes. Andrew: Because if you’re not looking after yourself, you can’t look after a baby. Jenna: You can’t fall from [inaudible, 57:40] and spot the person who’s the dad there, sitting there remembering that mums need to look after themselves to be good mums. Andrew: Thank you, Vicki. Vicki: Thanks, Andrew. Andrew: Thanks, Vashti. Vashti: Thanks, Andrew. Andrew: Always a pleasure, Jenna. Jenna: My brain has stopped. Vicki: Bye, that’s the word you want. Jenna: Bye. Andrew: Bye. Bye everybody. Jenna: Bye, Andrew. Andrew: Bye everybody.