#082 The First Year In Cloth Nappies

Jess talks about her first year using cloth nappies. The cloth nappies she likes and which ones worked best for her. She has been doing cloth nappies since early 2019 when Henry was about five months old. We started with disposables. I was one of those people that was just a bit overwhelmed by cloth to begin with, but Henry used to love to do his poo in the car on the way to places, so I got sick of cleaning poo out of things and decided if I was going to clean poo out of things, it might as well be a cloth nappy house.



Andrew: Hey, Vashti. 

Vashti: Hey, Andrew. How are you today?  

Andrew: Good. How are you doing?  

Vashti: I'm awesome. 

Andrew: And um, we've got a guest. 

Vashti: We do. I'm really excited about this guest. She's well-known to me. She's probably well-known to anyone who comes into Nest. 

Andrew: Really? Why is that? Does she just hang around all the time? 

Vashti: A little bit, but, you know. 

Jess: She hung around so much, she got hired.  

Vashti: Yeah, pretty much. This is Jess. Jess works at Nest. 

Jess: Hi, everyone. 

Vashti: She's our Saturday Nesty, and she's got her babies with us, with her today too. 

Andrew: Surprise, surprise.  

Vashti: Yeah. 

Jess: Surprise, surprise. We got 3-year-old Henry and 1-year-old Ella. 

Andrew: Everybody brings their kids in.  

Vashti: I know. Why wouldn't you? It's an awesome place to bring them. 

Jess: You bring food and snacks and they still want to still want to sit on your lap.

Vashti: Yeah. Jess, how long have you been doing cloth nappies for?  

Jess: We've been doing cloth since early 2019 when Henry was about 5 months old. We started with disposables. I was one of those people that was just a bit overwhelmed by cloth to start with, but Henry used to love to do his poo in the car on the way to places, so I got sick of cleaning poo out of things and decided if I was going to clean poo out of things, it might as well be a cloth nappy.  

A friend told me about Nest and I wandered in, and Vashti gave me the full rundown, which then made it seem very easy. We walked out with 6 nappies to give it a trial that day, and I think within 2 weeks, had a full-time stash.  

Vashti: I remember you walking back in. When you left with that first time, I'm like, "I don't know. You seem keen, but maybe not," and then a couple of days later, actually, you were back for more. I was like, "Oh, you're back already?" You're like, "Yeah, I love them." 

Andrew: She didn't come back in and say, "I used all of those. Can I get some more?" 

Vashti: Wash, then. 

Jess: So, we loved them. And then, Ella was in cloth, pretty much from birth, we used a few of the nappies that we were given at the Mater, didn't even finish the packet that they gave us, and other than that, she's never had a disposable on her bum. You're a cloth queen, isn't she?  

Vashti: She is. She's an awesome cloth queen too.  

Jess: And now, one year old, she picks all our own, thank you very much.  

Vashti: Nice. 

Andrew: Picks her own colour.  

Jess: Yep.  

Andrew: Oh, wow.  

Jess: You have to get two nappies out of the drawer and she picks which one she'll have. I you just try and pull one out and she's like, "I didn't pick that one". 

Vashti: So, you've really enjoyed using cloth, then? 

Jess: I absolutely love them, yeah. 

Vashti: And how long have you been working at Nest now? 

Jess: Well, you hired me in April 2020, and then, I had a brief hiatus when COVID got a bit crazy.  

Vashti: That's right. Yeah.  

Jess: I came back, I think, in June that year when it calmed down a bit and other than a maternity leave stint.  

Vashti: Yeah, we only got one training shift in before COVID went rife here in Queensland in Brisbane and I had to sit there and say, "Look I'm really sorry, but I need to sort of put your training on hold because we just can't have that many staff members in the store at once."  

Jess: And then, that was fine but then in June when I came back I was like, "Now, we have to treat me, like, this is my first shift again."  

Vashti: Yeah. 

Jess: So, I was telling all the customers like, "This is my second attempt to the first shift."  

Vashti: You never know it now though, like, you're just part of the furniture at Nest, so you just fit in so perfectly. I love it.  

Jess: Thank you. 

Andrew: Oh, she's going to use that to get a pay raise.  

Vashti: I'm sure she will, maybe I'll give her some nappies to try or something. Perks of working in a nappy store, you get to try all the new things.  

Jess: All the new things that come in. 

Andrew: Because you test everything before you sell them? 

Jess: We definitely do, yeah.  

Andrew: So, you're a tester? 

Jess: Ella is a chief testing bum.  

Vashti: Yeah.  

Andrew: How many nappies have you tested over? 

Jess: Probably, at least 8. Now, it's been quite a few.  

Andrew: How many made it to the shelf? 

Jess: Most of them.  

Vashti: It's been a few. 

Jess: Some of the more recent ones, I think. We're still thinking about.  

Vashti: We're still looking out.  

Jess: Yeah, most of the ones that I had from the beginning, I was one of the Petite Crown Catcher testers.  

Vashti: Yeah.  

Jess: That was one of the ones that I was in there, straight away being like, "When are you getting these in? I would like some of these please, now."  

Vashti: Now, your sister-in-law just had a little baby as well. 

Jess: She has this morning, so she's got our whole newborn stash from Ella and a couple of extras that I've pulled off the shelves, including a new newborn nappy that's come out recently. So, we'll be good to play with those on someone else's baby's bum and see them all in use again.  

Andrew: You can mention the brand. What was the brand? 

Jess: DB, I have recently brought out the DB little. 

Vashti: It's a Designer Bums.  

Jess: Yes. So, we've actually got the pattern in the one size that fits most the large for Henry, and so, we should be able to get a 3-cloth bum shot at some point soon, with all 3 of them in the same print, in a different size. 

Andrew: Wow, that's good. 

Vashti: So, that's going to be fantastic, having those 3 different sizes and being able to see how they fit on a newborn, a 1-year-old, and a 3-year-old, and just see that difference, I think that's absolutely awesome. It'll be cute. I can't wait to see that photo. 

Jess: It's going to be very cute. We've already had Henry and Ella in the matching prints, so it's just been a waiting game for a new baby to put the little one. 

Vashti: Nice. So, Henry's been testing the large one from the Designer Bums and it's gone really well, so that, it will hit the shelves at Nest very soon.  

Jess: Yup, it's been very popular at our house. The dinosaur print never goes far astray, to be honest, but it's also a very absorbent nappy, so we're quite happy with it. 

Andrew: Dinosaurs prints are just a no-brainer.  

Vashti: Yeah.  

Jess: It's a great dinosaur print. It's got like a pink dinosaur and it is well, so it feels like a dinosaur print that's not just... 

Andrew: Oh, really?  

Vashti: Yeah. 

Andrew: Gosh.  

Vashti: It works. It sounds crazy but it works. 

Jess: No, they're completely different. 

Andrew: Oh, this is different?  

Vashti: Yeah. 

Andrew: Our next range has a pink dinosaur. 

Vashti: They're very different. I remember bugging Vicky years ago for a pink dinosaur because all the dinosaur prints are very masculine. They're very gender-orientated towards boys, and I believe every girl needs a dinosaur. Every girl. 

Jess: Absolutely. I had to talk a father into a little girl came in to pick a swim nappy at Nest the other day and went with the Imse Vimse pink dinos, and dad was like, "Oh, are we sure?" and she's like, "Yes, dinosaurs", and he's like, "Uh, can we return it?" I'm like, "Yeah, but she loves it." As long as you don't wash it, you can bring it back but she loves it. She picked it. 

Andrew: You seem to be the only person against this. 

Vashti: So, now I'm very excited, we've just gave away a clue on your next range Andrew. 

Andrew. Yeah, I know, don't worry about it. I'll delay this podcast until it's out.  It will be out in three months.

Vashti: Well, that's a bit exciting. Because I've played with the whole new range.  

Andrew: Yes. Well, actually, we have a whole new range in this room.  

Vashti: Yes.  

Andrew: Just hidden away in a box because the rest of them are taking a bit of time to come from China. Surprise, surprise. It takes a long time to get stuff from China. 

Vashti: Everything is taking a long time to come from China.

Jess: Vashti, forgets how new Bubblebubs stuff sometimes. She's been playing with it for so long. When the Bo Peeps came out, she's like, "These have been at them, like they've been out for 3 months", and she's like, "No. You've been playing with them for years, but they've been on the shelves for 3 months." Yeah. 

Andrew: Yeah, that's right because Vashti always gets a sneak peak? 

Jess: She does. Yeah. 

Vashti: Well, I helped choose his new range. 

Andrew: Well, true because Vicky always used to depend on you to help choose the range anyway because she needed the person who talked to customers all the time for you, and that's what you are. Did you like them? I don't think the pink dinosaur changed though, did it. I think we went with the first go. 

Jess: Slight different colour change. It was slightly different, just a few shades just to try and make those details pop a little bit more.  

Andrew: That's right.  

Jess: Yeah, the actual design itself didn't. It was more just slight colours. 

Andrew: Some of them went through so many changes. What's that thing? 

Vashti: The monsters?  

Andrew: No. Donkey! 

Jess: Oh, the donkey.  

Andrew: I think the donkey went through the most changes. 

Vashti: The donkey went through a few changes. Yeah. See now, we're giving away too much.  

Andrew: Yeah. 

Vashti: You have to edit this, and there's going to be beeps all over the place.  

Andrew: Yeah. I'll beat the crap out it. What do you like about cloth nappies? What's your favourite thing?  

Jess: Well, one of my favourite things was that I stopped having to clean poo of everything else because, unlike disposable cloth nappies, hold it all in. You're only cleaning the poo out of what you expected to be cleaning the poo out of.  

Vashti: That's pretty awesome.  

Jess: Make my life a lot easier.  

Vashti: No more cleaning car seats when you get to your location. 

Jess: Cleaning your car seat with a baby wipe is just not fun.  

Andrew: Yeah. I don't think I ever had to clean poo out of car seats.  

Jess: It's always a daily occurrence for us. That's why it's not fun, but I also just love the prints. It is a rabbit hole that is very easy to fall down. Vashti didn't tell me many years ago that I couldn't have any more nappies. Luckily, she has given up on that.  

Vashti: Yea, I just stopped. I think Jess spends more of her wage at Nest than she actually takes home.  

Jess: Entirely possible.  I'm just reinvesting in the business.  

Vashti: She likes to pay her own way. When she felt pregnant with Ella, it was like, "Okay, yup, you have an excuse to buy some more nappies." Her brother and sister-in-law falling pregnant. I'm like, "Okay, you've got another excuse", and now she's just confirmed that they're going to go for number 3.  

Andrew: Oh, excellent. 

Jess: Yeah, so we should have another cloth bum in a while.  

Vashti: So yes, number 3.  

Jess: Number 3.  

Vashti: It's not here yet.  

Jess: No, not yet.  

Vashti: No.  

Jess: It will be a while away, but coming.  So more excuses for more nappies.  

Vashti: Yeah.  

Jess: Plus, the bigger the stash, the better quality they'll be over the long term because they'll get used less. 

Andrew: Yeah, keep telling yourself that.  Is that literally you tell your husband? 

Jess: Yes. 

Vashti: It's like No, Mitch, I work. It's my money, I'll spend it on nappies if I want to. 

Jess: Pretty much. But, having a big stash also means that when life gets hectic with 2 children, there's usually still clean folded nappies.  

Vashti: Exactly. 

Jess: Occasionally, when you're on top of it, you can't actually fit all the nappies in the drawer, but that's beside the point. Luckily, that's a very rare problem in my household. 

Andrew: When you can't fit them in the drawer, that's the sign. You've got too many. 

Vashti: We are not condoning going out and spending lots of money on nappies just for the sake of the prints.  

Jess: You can get away with a lot less nappies than I own very easily. 

Vashti: Stashes don't have to be big, they can be small.  

Andrew: I feel like I have to put in a public announcement that we do not support the ridiculous purchase of nappies.  

Jess: You can have a well curated small stash.  

Vashti: We also do support, though, you doing what you want when you want.  

Andrew: That's true. When we got out of nappies, Vicky took that motivation and put it into sheets and pillows and stuff.  

Jess: She loved to Addairs.  

Andrew: That's right. It just gets shifted to something else. 

Vashti: It gets moved along. Yeah. I thought we might talk about the first year in costs today. You have just cracked over one year with Ella last month. 

Jess: We have.  

Vashti: Yeah.  

Jess: This is obviously our first experience with newborn nappies since Henry didn't go in until 5 months, and I also discovered that I was quite the odd one out. I always hear people saying, "Oh, with a newborn, you really need velcro." I've discovered that no matter how small the child is, I still hate velcro. 

Vashti: Really?  

Jess: Yes.  

Vashti: There you go. I've always loved Velcro on a newborn. 

Jess: I can see the appeal.  

Andrew: What did you use? Did you used snaps?  

Jess: Snaps! Our Pebbles were probably the only, which is a Bubblebubs all-in-one, were probably the only velcro newborn nappy that I actually liked. Beyond that, all of our BamBams, we had covers with snaps on.  

Andrew: Okay.  

Jess: Yeah. All the rest, we had a big Bo Peep stash because I'm in all into fan, so we had quite a large stash of Bo Peeps.  

Vashti: Well, you did start your cloth nappy stash on Candies?  

Jess: No. We started with the EcoNaps and one of the fitted, the Candies were a late session into a stash. 

Vashi: Oh really?

Jess: Yeah. When we're out of the chinchilla and I couldn't get everything dry all the time. 

Vashti: That's right. 

Jess: I need more nappies. 

Vashti: Yeah because you are finding the EcoNaps inserts were taking too long to try. 

Jess: Yeah. I had a Chinese laundry happening... 

Vashti: Yeah.  

Jess: ...out in Chinchilla. If it wasn't a ridiculously hot day, I found that it was just constantly moving them from the line into the airer and then back to the line the next morning. We decided we needed extra nappies and that the Candies trifold was potentially something that would be easier to dry.  

Vashti: I've just got it in my head because you had so many Candies that's where you started, but it wasn't. It was EcoNaps.  

Jess: Yeah. I started with the moms and dads range of Candies because I loved all of it, so I just bought all 9 prints from that limited edition range and then we've added bits and pieces here and there since. 

Vashti: Well, Henry's wearing one of those on his bum now. 

Jess: He is. 

Vashti: Little dragons. 

Jess: Dragons this morning. Thank you very much.  

Andrew: You put pants on, though. I can't see it.  

Vashti: I know. 

Andrew: You just stick it out the top.  

Jess: I know. 

Andrew: With a bum crack.

Vashti: I love the sticking out. [crosstalk] 

Andrew: I like it.  

Vashti: That little peek of a nappy out the top of the shorts.  

Andrew: No. I love to see the nappy. 

Jess: Yeah. By the time we get home, don't worry, no children will have shorts on. I just feel like they need shorts to go in the car for some reason. 

Andrew: Bring out a range of see-through pants, so you can still see the nappy. 

Vashti: We'll get some peekaboo pants where it's just got a little clearer bum patch, so you can see the nappy. 

Jess:  Some little tie on chap things. 

Andrew: I was on the baby website the other day. Remember those leggings that Bubblebubs they used to sell?  

Jess: Yeah.

Andrew: They're still around. 

Jess: Huggalugs? Yeah. 

Andrew: They're a different brand now, but they're still around. 

Vashti: No. There's lots of different brands, so Huggalugs is still there. I love the Rock A Thigh socks. They're an American brand and they're proper socks, but they come thigh high.  

Jess: Socks is something that you really need in Brisbane, though.  

Vashti: No. 

Jess:  We've never really don't know Huggalugs or any of those. 

Vashti: No. See, I had the Rock A Thigh socks and because the Rock A Thigh socks do kids up to 10 or 12 years of age, they've got older kids ones. I had all three of my children in the rainbow Rock A Thighs. It was fantastic because when Kailen was a baby, Mikaylah was 7 and Braithe was 9. Through winter, all three of them wore thigh high rainbow socks. It was gorgeous. I loved it.  

Andrew: Do you get a picture? 

Vashti : I think I did somewhere. I'm sure I did. I would have. 

Andrew: Okay. If you find it, we'll post it.  

Vashti: Yeah. I'll have to go hunting, but Kailen's nerely 8 now. It could be somewhere hidden. I'd have to go back through the hard drive to find it. I loved that, and they actually did stay up. Kailen pulled the pair out recently. They would have been Braithe's at the time, but they've gone through all 3 kids now. He pulled a pair out and tried to wear them in the middle of summer, and I'm like, "Yeah, mate, it's too hot for that right now. You need to not wear thigh high socks in the middle of summer." He goes, "But I like them" and I'm like, "I know, but it's really hot. You just need your sandals, no socks." 

Andrew: You wouldn't be the first person to try and fit into to something when it's just for fashion.  

Vashti: Yeah. Exactly. 

Jess: Then, you try and put them in the middle of winter and he'd be like, "No." 

Vashti: "No sandals"

Jess: "I'm not cold." Yeah.

Vashti: Yeah. We are very lucky here in Brisbane, 2 weeks of winter a year.  

Jess: That's it. You can't find your winter clothes because you haven't needed them since those 2 weeks last year.  

Vashti: Yeah. 

Jess: They're still somewhere hidden away.  

Vashti: Yeah.  

Andrew: And by the time you find them, it's over. 

Jess: It's over.   

Vashti: We were talking about- how do we get on the socks? We were talking about newborn nappies. 

Andrew: Sorry. My fault. Well, I'll edit it out that it wasn't my fault.  

Vashti: Yeah. I know.  

Jess: This is how I still end up at work 2 hours after my shift ended if Vashti's working in the afternoon. Chat, chat, chat, chat, and then I'm "oh". Vashti's like, "You should go." 

Vashti: Yes.  

Jess: I probably should. Okay. 

Vashti: We really, just, should not do that.  

Andrew: I think we were talking about the newborn stage, like the really early newborn stage.  

Jess: Yeah, and that I was anti-velcro, which is the weird person.  

Vashti: But you took your clothes nappies to the hospital with you. 

Jess: I did. 

Vashti: And you birthed at the Mater? 

Jess: At the Mater. The Mater was interesting at the time because, obviously, had their foundation nappies and for private patients, you got given a pack of those. Private patients that also didn't say anything about cloth, whereas the public section, I don't know if the website still says that, but used to say, "Please do not bring cloth nappies." I was like, "Well, it doesn't say anything on the private section and I'm taking them. What's anyone going to say?" I'm going to try and wash them there or anything like that, but we personally found a really positive experience. All of the midwives and the doctors that saw them were really impressed, really liked them. Yeah. We didn't have any issues at all with having cloth in the hospital.  

Vashti: That's fantastic.  

Jess: Mitch and Henry used to just bring in a new wet bag of clean nappies  and take home the wet bag of dirty nappies when they came to visit every day. So, it worked really well for us.  

Vashti: Did you have the midwives coming and asking about them and chatting to you? 

Jess: Anyone that did was really just about talking about the prints, that they like them, where we got them from. We had one midwife that was talking about the newborn nappies she'd used on her child, which were Baby Beehinds. 

Vashti: Nice. 

Jess: Yeah. Everyone was really positive about it, which was great. 

Vashti: That's fantastic, and Mitch was good with taking the nappies home at the end of the day? 

Jess: Yeah. 

Vashti: He kept on top of the washing at home because you were in there a few days, weren't you? 

Jess: Mostly. Yeah. 4 days post to C-sections.  

Andrew: You probably had so many nappies, he probably didn't have to wash the whole time you're in the hospital, though. 

Jess: I think he did one, pre-wash the whole time I was in there. 

Andrew: I knew it. 

Jess: I guess that, for us, was a benefit of a fairly decent-sized stash and it just made one less thing for Mitch to try and keep on top of when he was, all of a sudden had Henry to himself for 4 days, which he had never done before. No mummy. When mummy disappeared in the middle of the night. 

Vashti: It happens. 

Jess: It does. I see. That was the thing that I found at the Wesley with Kailen as well. The midwives were really, really supportive of the cloth use. Well, there was no comment at all in regards to, whether I could bring cloth to the hospital or not. There's nothing in the Wesley's paperwork. All of the staff were really supportive and they were really interested. There was a note at the nurse's station calling me the cloth nappy lady, and the midwives are actually coming down and saying, "Tell me about these nappies. Show me how they work." 

Jess: Yeah. 

Vashti: I was in labor overnight and had like 4:00 A.M. C-section. I was exhausted. He was born with a bit of fluid on his lungs. Brent went home to get the other kids, and I was trying to get a couple of hours sleep. Kailen kept on coughing and spluttering. I was really concerned that he- I wouldn't wait to the coughing and spluttering to help him get rid of that fluid. I asked if he could go to the nursery just so I could get some sleep, and they took the cloth with him. 

Jess: That's great. 

Vashti: There was no issues. They didn't need to change him. Thankfully, I changed him before he went and he was only for, I think, 2 hours before they brought him back for a feed. 

Jess: Yeah.  

Vashti: They were keen. They were happy. There's no issues with using cloth in hospital. I think that's the misconception that a lot of new parents get under. It's like, "Oh no, it's too hard in hospital." It's really not, is it? 

Jess: No. It was really easy, particularly when you're just not thinking about it, beyond sticking it in a wet bag to deal with it later.  

Andrew: Something that I noticed, though, is all of our kids, especially Gabriel or I had to go into... 

Vashti: NICU. 

Andrew: NICU. Gabriel even had to be transferred hospitals. Vicky was starting to get upset about the fact that she couldn't put a cloth nappy on it. I said, "They're trying to save his life. Just leave him alone."  

Vashti: Well, that's the other thing. It doesn't have to be cloth, especially if your child is going into special care or NICU for whatever reason, there's enough going on. You've got enough on your plate, and the nursing staff are doing what they need to do. If that's the sort of situation you're in, don't stress about cloth. Worry about it when hubby is back with you.  

Jess: Absolutely. 

Vashti: If you have a standard birth with no complications, even a C-section, and you want to use cloth from the start, then there's nothing stopping you from doing cloth from the start.  

Jess: It's like everything in parenting isn't it, you've got to do what is right for you and your family on the day.

Vashti: Yeah. So, what is your favourite nappy from the start? 

Jess: It changed on a weekly basis. Pebbles were my absolute favourite early on, and then we moved on to the Seedling Commando.  

Vashti: Comodo mini?    

Jess: Yeah. Comodo nappy. Can you tell I'm toilet training a three-year-old? That's always one of the options. Are we going Commando? Are we wearing on these? What are we doing? Yes, the Seedling Mini Fits were a favourite and then Bo Peeps were great. After that, it all changed and obviously, BamBams were a bit of a favourite for overnight because Ella turned out to be a unicorn baby that actually slept for long stretches from really early on .Oh wait, unicorn baby, trust me. Henry was the complete opposite. I'd called The Midwives and was like, this baby sleeps for, like, 5 hours in her bassinet, what's wrong with her and they're like, that's normal. I'm like, no, it's not. I've had a child before and my mother-in-law who's a parent of 4 asked me if I was drugging this child. Okay? This is not normal. 

Vashti: Does she still sleep at one? 

Jess: Nowhere near as well as she used to. She's getting a lot of teeth at the moment. So she's struggling at the moment, but she's still a fairly good sleeper. Still a fairly good sleeper. 

Vashti: You used the BamBams for those longer period?

Jess: We use the BamBams for longer periods and if we really thought she was going to sleep, we'd also stick a Bubblebubs stretchy bamboo prefold around that and put that all in a cover as well. That way we had heaps of absorbency and we knew that no matter how long that she slept, she weren't going to be dealing with changing sheets.

Vashti: See that's why I love fitteds.

Jess: Yeah.

Vashti: You can have the nappy sitting so snug and secure on and then boost on the outside of the nappy before you put the cover on. 

Jess: Absolutely. So you can't go past that that makes a great little early night nappy if you do have a child that sleeps really well. 

Vashti: So, all these numbers you've just talked about are all newborn?

Jess: Yes. 

Vashti: So they're all nappies that are designed to fit from like that to 2 and a half kilo mark up until that 7 to 8 kilo mark?

Jess: Yep. 

Vashti: Did you use any one size fits most?

Jess: We didn't even play with the one size fits most until I think Ella hit 6 or 7 weeks. And then, we started with some quite trim ones like our Designer Bums and whilst we've got to fit without having to do a newborn hack. It still took another couple of weeks before it was a really nice fit. So, certainly for us in newborn nappy isn't something that I'd want to go without. Like we say, Nest newborn nappies are for newborn babies. It's just so much easier. Nice and trim and you're not messing around trying to get a fiddly newborn hack to fit and you just got a nice trim nappy that baby's comfortable in and anyone could put on as well. 

Vashti: What was her birth weight?

Jess: She was 3.7 kilos. 

Vashti: She's a decent size. 

Jess: Yep, yeah.

Andrew: It sounds it's like you could have put a candy on but wow.

Vashti: Yeah. When you started using the one size fits most you remember how much she was weighing then?

Jess: She probably would have been getting close to 5 kilos, I think by then and still it's just because no matter how big they are, and this is thing I say to customers in store, who's particularly, when they come in and say, like I've had an ultrasound is going to be a big baby, so we're not going to bother with newborn nappies. We're just gonna go straight to one size fits most and of course, if that's what they want to do, that's awesome. And we can help them find some nice trim nappies for that. But a lot of people forget that, no matter how big the baby is, they've still got those scrawny little newborn thighs and that's where it's difficult to get the fit. And that's where a newborn nappy is nice and easy, because it's already built for those little chicken legs. And then, once they start to get those delicious roly-poly baby thighs [crosstalk] it is so much easier for one size fits most.

Vashti: Which generally with most babies isn't until around 2 to 3 months. 

Jess: That's it. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, by the time you hit 9 months, you like this nappy that you've sold me as a birth to potty training. It's not birth to potty training so about to grow out of it. Look at these thighs. What am I supposed to do about this? And you're like, it's okay, it's okay. They're going to start walking in a few months, and then you're actually going to go back down a rise setting. It'll all be fine, I promise. Yeah, I had the same feeling with my first child, but it'll work.

Andrew: I think that's probably the number one question on the website is, among the last snap. He's about to go out of these. What we're gonna do? 

Jess: Yeah. You told me. 

Vashti: And your baby is only nine or ten months old.

Andrew: He's gonna start running soon it will be fine. 

Vashti: That's the think they do, they chunk, they start off really scrawny and with these great big pot bellies, newborns have these pot bellies. 

Jess: Yeah. 

Vashti: But these teeny tiny little thighs, and no bum at all. 

Jess: Yep. 

Vashti: And that's where you need to get the good fit. And then they start chunking on that weight at that 2 to 3 month mark, and you start getting really concerned because they just explode in their weight. Kailen hit 8 kilos at 4 months. He's born 3815. Eight pound eleven.  Decent size. 8 kilos at 4 months, his 4850 brother didn't hit 8 kilos until 5 and a half months.  They all grow differently.  By 20 months, he was only 11 and a half kilos. So he more than doubled, his birth weight in the first 4 months, and then less than that in the next 16. So yeah, it really, once they start getting mobile, they just lose it all and just grow up instead of out.

Jess: That's it, and like Henry is now 17 odd kilos and he's still not even in the last snaps on his Candies. So, as much as it may seem like it, 9 months, this nappy is never going to work until toilet training, they do but 99% of children, they will. 

Andrew: He's not in a Candie now though, is he? 

Vashti: Yeah. 

Andrew: Oh, is he? 

Vashti: Yeah, we talked about that before he's wearing Poppa, the dragon one.

Andrew: Okay, yeah, see, he's got pants on that. I don't have my glasses on. 

Jess: If I take his pants off him, I'll never get them back on again. 

Vashti: He likes to go round bare bum.

Jess:  Can you see standing is a new trick. 

Andrew: You've passed the newborn stage. 

Jess: Yeah.

Andrew: What changed? Besides the fact that you went changing nappies 12 times a day. 

Jess: Well, I have children that poo a lot so I still change them at least 8 times. 

Vashti: Prolific poo'ers, they are my kids.

Jess" Oh, I used to laugh at the podcast where everyone was like, " Oh, no once you get toddler you'll any changes in like 4 to 6 times a day" and I'm like, "You have not met my toddler's, no." on average or you might have weirdo children like...

Andrew: Was it strange screaming at us? And we were actually talking back to you now?

Jess: It's a little bit different.

Vashti: Because you've been an avid podcast listener, haven't you? 

Jess: I've never been a huge podcast person but during the COVID lockdown, I think actually like listen to all of Nappy Leaks pretty much back to back and then I've stayed on top of it since then.

Vashti: You did come on as a guest once before...

Jess: No, I've never been on before. No. This is my first appearance on the podcast. 

Vashti and Jess: That's a bit exciting. 

Vashti: And I didn't even bring cake..

Jess: And we didn't bring cake for your birthday yesterday, so it's sad, isn't it?  I can do better.

Vashti: It's okay.

Andrew: But you have been here before though because you've been filming with...

Jess: No, we filmed in at Nest. 

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Jess: Yes, so this is also my first trip into Bubblebubs HQ too.

Andrew: Wow, I shoot so many videos. I can't remember where she is.

Vashti: Yeah, we need to do some more videos. 

Andrew: Yeah. Ok, put it on the list. Actually, we haven't shot videos in your new place. 

Vashti and Jess:  Yeah we have.

Andrew: Oh, okay.

Vashti: Jess did them. With Henry.

Andrew: Oh, that's fine. We also did the Strucket.

Vashti: Yeah Kelly and the Strucket.

Jess: And some newborn ones as well with someone else baby before we arrived.

Vashti: Yeah, when we did the ANA videos, The Australian Nappy Association.  We've done a few videos in the new shop but I've just recently been reviewing our videos and I want to do some new ones. We've had some new products in and stuff like that, so I'm always done testing on the products, we haven't actually got videos on your website about them.

Andrew: Stand by for some new Nest Nappies videos. Yeah. 

Vashti: So yes. So moving past newborn nappies and you're starting to use your bigger nappies so you're hitting around that 2 to 3 month mark.

Jess: Yeah. So I moved onto the one size fits most, so that expanded the stash significantly again, and tried out some different ones. Obviously, 2 different children, 2 different body shapes. So, we've liked some different nappies on Ella than what we used to like on Henry and I found even our favourites with Henry changed as he changed as well. We've always been able to make our entire stash work but you'd often find points where you like, I were going to be in the car for a long time where I might not get to change you for 3 hours and you pick a a certain nappy based on their body shape at the time because you knew you were going to get the perfect fit and you had enough absorbency in it to last for however long you need it. So, that's the reason that I've always been keen on a fairly diverse stash. That's always on these things when I see in groups or when someone comes into the store and they just want to have 24 of the same nappy and it does work for some people. It makes it easier for other people to stuff but I've always loved having a variety of different nappies in our stash. 

Vashti: That's always good. I'm a big person for variety. It can be difficult when you're first starting out trying to find what you like. And I'm like, you know, having to choose a couple of different things and play with a couple of different things and then getting concerned that your mix up the inserts and so you don't mix up the inserts and even if you do, it doesn't really matter though. 

Jess: It doesn't matter and that's a conversation I had with a customer the other day. Like if you put the wrong  nappy, as long as you've got some absorbent bits and you've got a shell, that's water resistant, it doesn't matter. You can frankennappy all you like.

Andrew: I used to mix up the inserts all the time..

Vashti: There's no nappy police to jump out of a cupboard and tell you that you're doing it wrong.

Jess: Worst thing that can happen is you end up with wet sheets or something like that. And that's not that terrible really. Most of the time as long as you've got absorbent and a water resistant bit you shouldn't even have leaks. It should be fine. 

Vashti: Yeah. So, did you find much difference between having a boy and having a girl, did you find that their nappies worked differently between boys and girls?

Jess: I didn't find that much different to be honest. There's a lot of talk about, you know, making sure your absorbency is out the front for boys, but I think because our entire stash is built out of very absorbent nappies that we never really had that sort of issue only really, for a short period of time when Henry was absolutely flooding things. And then, all we really did is for example, with the Candies would fold the booster in half and probably put it up front rather than having it through the middle. But for the most part, I haven't noticed changing our nappies around. I don't fold them differently between the 2 kids. 

Vashti: So, you don't need different nappies for boys than you need for girls? 

Jess: No.

Vashti: See, isn't that awesome? 

Jess: Yeah.

Vashti: You don't have to buy different things. I can have the same...

Jess: And we already had all the pink nappies because they were Henry's favourite anyway.  If you sent him off to get an a nappy, he came back with a pink one. It took me a few too many months to be like, that's it. I'm the one looking at these nappies and I want this cute pink one. And at first my husband looked at me he's like what why do we have a pink nappy when we only have a son, he got over that quickly and since then it's become henry's favourite. Now, it's one of Ella's favourites too.

Vashti: Did the pink nappy make his penis fall off?

Jess:  No.

Vashti:  I'm looking over at Andrew and he's wearing pink shirt

Jess:  Andrew in his pink shirt.

Andrew:  I am.

Vashti: It's one of his favourites shirts. 

Vashti: Actually, we're all wearing pink shirts today.  Wow. That's interesting. 

Jess:  Few different shades. 

Vashti:  But uh, sorry, no, we didn't plan that in. We must have just hoping, you know, channeling each others inner pinkness this morning.

Jess: Needed a bright pink for the grey day out there. 

Andrew: It's funny you say that because just a few minutes ago you were saying that you like a lot of nappies and now, you're saying oh no I just need a few.

Jess: When did I say I just need a few? Oh, you don't need to have..

Andrew: Yeah. Because you before you said yeah I got a lots of and they say yeah, I only need a few.

Jess: I personally like a lot of nappies because I have no self-control when it comes to pretty new prints.

Andrew: So that's it. It's just the prints.

Jess: Yep. 

Andrew: You're not buying others because they get slightly different shape or...

Jess: No, I've never yet changed and that I tend to stick within the brands that we know and love but yes, I'm a sucker for a new print. 

Vashti: It's funny when I've given you a nappy that you've never used before, and it's like, you know, we're talking in the shop. And I say, I have you used this nappy because I noticed that you don't gravitate towards it when you're selling and you're like, oh no, I haven't used that and I'm like, right, take one home, use it. I want you to know how it works so that you can tell your customers. And it's funny listening to you come back and talk about what you do and don't like about it. You've always said everything that we've got works. I think you've tried just about everything on our shelf now.

Jess: Pretty much there's a couple here and there that we haven't, but I know enough about them that I could take that home and know that I could comfortably make them work on my child and I'm happy to sell it to anyone. But yeah, it's always much easier to sell something that you know and use yourself, which is why you only pick people that use cloth nappies. Like you never gonna hire someone off the street. That just says, "Hey, I'd like a job please." Because they want people that go this is the good things about an all-in-one. This is a good thing about an all in two. And this is a pocket that be and...  they are the benefits. 

Vashti: I like how you just skip the whole this is a good thing about a pocket nappy, you just said, this is a pocket nappies. Jess, doesn't like pocket nappies.

Andrew: Join the club. 

Vashti: You just lay the absorbency on top of the pocket. It's fine. It becomes an all in two that you just didn't snap up. 

Andrew: Join the club. I'll teach her the secret handshake.

Jess: Who has time for stuffing pockets, but some people absolutely love them and it's quite funny seeing different people. I had a customer on Saturday, that watch me stuff a Seedling Mini Fit and was like, oh, no, that's too much work. But other people come in and they're like, "Oh no. That's exactly what I want." And that's perfect. And that's why there's so many different types of nappies.

Andrew: So as Baskin Robbins has hundreds of flavours.

Vashti: No, 31 flavours.

Andrew: 31 Flavours.

Vashti: 31 Flavours. They just changed them regularly. 

Andrew: Yeah. But I keep cycling out Rum and Raisin.

Vashti: Really?

Andrew: Yeah. 

Vashti: See, I'm a choc chip cookie dough person.

Andrew: You would think that would be a staple.

Vashti: I took Kailen to Baskin and Robbins yesterday, the big kids had homework club and stuff like that. So, I picked up Kailen at school pickup and we went have Baskin Robbins for my birthday. He chose the orange sherbet which I was really quite surprised because that's like a..

Andrew: Not an ice cream. 

Vashti: It's a sorbet it's not an ice cream. And he gone in saying he wanted chocolate one and he chose an orange sorbet.

Jess: Came out with orange sherbet. 

Vashti: Which I was pretty impressed with. Mind you. Like, I always choose chocolate chip cookie dough because it's my dead set favourite. He did eat nearly half of mine. And all of his, I got one tiny taste of his.

Andrew: Because sherbet doesn't fill you up.

Vashti: No. 

Jess: He's a growing boy. 

Vashti: He keep saying to me, don't eat all the white chocolate and I'm like, "Sweetie, there's no white chocolate in this, its vanilla ice cream with chocolate chip bits." And he goes, "Look, there's a white chocolate bit." "Darling, that's the cookie dough." "I love the cookie dough." Of course you do. That's the best bit.  That's why I get it.  You come to a Nappy podcast, we talk about ice cream.

Andrew: Delicious. 

Jess: Yeah, absolutely. 

 Vashti:  I hope you're not pregnant and having cravings. 

Andrew: People driving around in their cars now gone through the drive-thru. 

Vashti: Yeah. So, same nappies worked on boys and girls. But you have still found different things because of the different shapes of Ella and Henry. 

Jess: Yeah. So we tend to gravitate towards the Designer Bums for Ella. They just seemed to be a really good fit with her, but we still use the EcoNaps and the Candies on Ella as well. Typically, the candy sit and Henry stash at the moment though, because they still fit him at 17 kilos, whereas Designer Bums one size fits fits most stop fitting him a while ago. So, it was quite exciting to see the new Large which is a great fit on him. 

Vashti: Yeah. That's good. 

Jess: They all work. 

Vashti: See.

Jess: It's just new prints that you need or don't need. 

Vashti: Well you don't need, you want. So, Ella is 1 now?

Jess: She is. 

Vashti: And how often do you change her nappy a day? 

Jess: She would usually get changed anywhere between 6 and 8 times. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Eight nappies she went through yesterday. 

Vashti: Nice. And are you using dedicated nappies on her now? 

Jess: Absolutely. So, she's pretty much always had some form of dedicated night nappy whether it be a BamBam with the pre folds, or but we always love a fitted for night.

Vashti: Fitteds are awesome. 

Andrew: What fitted are they using?

Jess: So, Henry is currently still in all about Baby Beehinds fitted. So, she is currently actually in a day fitted she's in the Bubblebubs Bamboo Delights with a stretchy prefold around is enough to get her through and when Henry moves up a size she'll go into the Baby Beehinds. 

Andrew: Not boosting yet, just the nappy?

Jess: A nappy and a free folder on the outside. [crosstalk[ Yeah. She typically only wets about 400 mils overnight.

Andrew: So easily contains it
	Jess: Very easy. 

Vashti: I know Henry wets a little bit more. We've weighed his night nappies. 

Jess: Yeah. Around 9 months. It was just almost impossible to keep up with it. We had some Rawr SoakMasters for a while there, which I really struggled to fit on him but they were the only thing that could keep up with the output that he had around 9 months. 

Andrew: What's the brand Soak Master? 

Vashti: Rawr.

Andrew: Rawr SoakMasters?

Jess: Yeah.

Andrew: That's brilliant a brilliant name. 

Vashti: Yeah. So, it's still a fitted nappy, but they've got the athletic wicking Jersey against the skin and then they've got a layer of microfibre underneath that. That's a quick absorption which is fantastic for flooding babies, because they just let go and flood the microfibre, soaks it all up and then gives it a chance to soak into the bamboo cotton. And then you still need a cover over the top of them, of course. What covers do you use on your night nappies? Do you use wool? Because I'm a wool person.

Jess: No, I've never even tried the wool to be honest because the looking after it's just, not been up my alley and we've always gotten away with [inaudible] that can just go through the same pre-wash and ,ain wash that we use. So, we had [inaudible] early on and we're still using some of those but the petite crown catcher is my favourite. 

Vashti: Yeah, I love the Petite Crown.  I know you do. You were one of my testers with Petite Crown that knew I wanted like 2 to 3 months worth testing and all of my testers of Petite Crown were back within a week going when are you stocking these?

Jess: Come on when are we getting these in.

Vashti: Like, hurry up.

Jess: It's fine. It'll be good. Just get some.

Vashti: Of course. That was like right before COVID here and so I had to wait almost 12 months to be able to get them in because of COVID. 

Jess: I think it probably got to the point where I'd walk through the door and Vashti would be like, "No."

Vashti: "No. They're not here yet."

Andrew: And she was only turning up to work. 

Vashti: Yeah. 

Jess:  No, this is before I worked there, just randomly as a customer.

Andrew:  That's funny.

Vashti: So, that's pretty much your first year in cloth with Ella. 

Jess: Yeah.

Vashti: We've touched on Henry being in cloths from 5 months as well. 

Jess: Yeah.

Vashti: You've said you're going back for a third. 

Jess: Yep. 

Vashti: Now that you've done it from birth, is there anything that you would do differently with the third? 

Jess: No. We will go straight back to cloths from hospital with number three.

Vashti: Yeah. Even with 3 kids?

Jess: Yeah. I think chances Ella potentially still be in nappies anyway, and if you're already washing nappies, an extra 12 from a newborn makes no difference here nor there to what you're doing at home. And I'd hate to try and have to work out which disposable fit Ella. This is the thing, once you've been clothing full time, you come to the point like I wouldn't even know what size or brand to go and buy. I haven't walked down the nappy aisle in Coles and Woolies in 3 years.

Vashti: It's funny, isn't it? Because I remember people come into the shop going, "Are there in size four disposables?" and I'm like, what's a size four?

Jess: What's the weight range of that?

Vashti: How much does your baby weigh? Oh, they are in size 4 and I'm like, "I don't know what that is. I'm sorry." 

Jess: Maybe we need a conversion chart up in the office.  Brand and size.

Vashti: I think I might just do that. So, straight, for number 3, you're going straight into cloth right from the start again?

Jess: Yep. And it's so easy.

Andrew: Quick question. Do you want a boy or a girl?

Jess: Doesn't matter.

Andrew: Because you've already got one of each?

Jess: We already got one of each. 

Vashti: Yeah see, I did that. I had a boy. I had a girl and then I had one of the others. You don't want one of the others. Everyone at home is going, what's one of the others? He's gorgeous. Gorgeous little boy. But yeah, he's full-on,  like takes a lot of work. 

Jess: I think Henry still going to be a full on one and Ella is going to be our risk-taker. My God. She's not walking yet, but she climbs everything. She was at the top of the pikler the other day. 

Vashti: Wow. 

Jess: Can you get down from there, Ella? She's like, [inaudible] Yeah, I can get down. You can get me. 

Vashti: She's gorgeous. She's absolutely gorgeous. Well, I think that's about it. 

Andrew: Thank you, Vashti.

Vashti: Thanks Andrew. 

Jess: Thanks Andrew. 

Vashti: Thanks for coming in, Jess. 

Jess:  Thanks for having me.

Vashti:  It was such pleasure. Do you want to come back for another episode?

Jess: Absolutely. 

Vashti: What do you reckon? 

Andrew: Sit right there. 

Jess: Don't move it's now 2 weeks later. 

Andrew: Can I say that out loud?

Vashti: Gosh.

Andrew: Thanks everybody. Goodbye.

Vashti: Bye. 

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